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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Enrico,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Before jumping into the section titles, I think we need to agree on the meaning of the basic terms.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> It seems to me that the term “command” is a limited term and should be improved. Saying “uplink” is no longer good enough since we must cover cross links. The term “Forward Link” has value because it can cover many cases
and to me implies the sender, no matter if it is an “up” or “down” link. It does not cover what kind of data is being sent.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> A remaining part of the terminology question is whether we want to term to cover the type of data or information that is being conveyed. The term “command” is very specific, it is a command and not science data or a software
load. But the term “telemetry” seems to be less specific. I generally think of it as the return of housekeeping and engineering information but I believe the term is used very general to also include the returned (down linked) science or operational data.
We need to define what we mean by “telemetry”. My vote would be to use that term “telemetry” for the housekeeping and engineering data on the return link. On some projects we refer to the other returned data as the “operational” data for a space weather
satellite and “science” data for a purely science satellite. I do not have a strong opinion, just stating terms I have seen in use.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The section titles<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Seems to me that section 2.2 Command and 2.4 Telemetry, titles need to be improved.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I hesitate to propose the possible rewording until we decide on the definition of the terms and if we what the title to convey of the kind of data transferred. I think the title should contain some detail but at the same time be general
enough to allow for things we have not thought of, if such thing is possible. <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Victor<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> SLS-RFM <sls-rfm-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org> <b>
On Behalf Of </b>Jon Hamkins via SLS-RFM<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 8, 2021 11:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int; Enrico.Vassallo@esa.int<br>
<b>Cc:</b> sls-rfm@mailman.ccsds.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Sls-rfm] [EXTERNAL] Re: CCSDS 401 structure naming convention - proposed changes<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>I think the note is a good idea to explain the more general nature of these transmissions. If a change in terminology is made, I suggest coordination with C&S and OPT Working Groups, because their blue books are also using the terms telemetry and/or telecommand.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> ----Jon<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Jon Hamkins</span></strong><br>
Chief Technologist, Communications, Tracking, and Radar Division<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">O</span></strong> 818-354-4764 (preferred) |
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">M</span></strong> 626-658-6220 (does not work at home)<br>
<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">JPL</span></strong> | jpl.nasa.gov
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 4/8/2021 3:21 AM, <a href="mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int">
Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Dear Enrico,</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> frankly speaking, the third possibility look to me the best one.</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">If strongly needed, a note could be added about using historical titles.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The general problem is that using new/different terms - as you correctly remarks - 401.0-B may enter in conflict with different fora including usage within CCSDS.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">As an example, the notation forward/return (link) is mainly used to generalise the diction specially when one side in not on Earth as done in Proximity-1 Physical Layer book (see
</span><a href="https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.us%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fpublic.ccsds.org%2FPubs%2F211x1b4e1.pdf__%3B!!PvBDto6Hs4WbVuu7!f3bYBbEBsgWLEXHbQyqr6j0l8bZycehpQM0Ljy2_zpwWO2EY_xzn3CRU5kUrbGbUFx_e-oBA%24&data=04%7C01%7Cvictor.j.sank%40nasa.gov%7C60ead4807ce24624992108d8faa1fbf2%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7C0%7C637534921060630712%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=yRlw9r0QDLhM%2FElALrtbSsmNcJ2CVFbUFJu0UyCfbTw%3D&reserved=0"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">https://public.ccsds.org/Pubs/211x1b4e1.pdf</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
)</span> <br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Ciao</span> <br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Gian Paolo</span> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">From: </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:Enrico.Vassallo@esa.int">Enrico.Vassallo@esa.int</a></span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">To: </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:sls-rfm@mailman.ccsds.org">sls-rfm@mailman.ccsds.org</a></span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Date: </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">08-04-21 10:05</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Subject: </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">[Sls-rfm] CCSDS 401 structure naming convention - proposed changes</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Sent by: </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"SLS-RFM"
<a href="mailto:sls-rfm-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"><sls-rfm-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org></a></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Dear RFM WG colleagues,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
discussing high rate 22 GHz uplink recommendations, we noted that the current structure naming convention may not be appropriate to cover "generic" data transfer applications:</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> 2.1<i> Earth-to-Space Radio Frequency</i> 2.4<i> Telemetry</i></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><br>
2.2<i> Telecommand</i> 2.5<i> Radio Metric</i></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><br>
2.3<i> Space-to-Earth Radio Frequency</i> 2.6<i> Spacecraft</i></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
One possible solution would be to change the title of section 2.2 to something like "Telecommand and forward data" and that of section 2.4 to something like "Telemetry and return data".</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
This is to distinguish between telecommand and uplink data transfers (like on-board software patch uploading, etc.) and between (HK) telemetry and payload transmissions.
<br>
Note that already now recs 2.4.8 and 2.4.23 do not mention telemetry in the title and deal with payload data. However, both recommendations have pictures for symbol rate definition with captions indicating telemetry symbol rate. I assume we will have the same
in section 2.2.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
One would need to check in detail all recommendations in 2.2 and 2.4, which is a lot of work I think.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
Another possibility is to change the section titles to "Telecommand (including data transfer)" and "Telemetry (including data transfer)" so that we can avoid checking current recommendations for consistency.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
In addition, one could use as alternative to "data transfer" the "payload" word although this is not generally utilized to indicate the same thing in different fora.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
The third possibility is to ignore this semantic problem and leave everything unchanged.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
Could I have your view by April 15 COB?</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
Regards, Enrico</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><br>
<br>
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