<div dir="auto">Ack and thanks!<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">V</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jun 28, 2024, 07:52 Felix Flentge <<a href="mailto:Felix.Flentge@esa.int">Felix.Flentge@esa.int</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Yes,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The sequence counter is necessary to distinguish bundles created with the same DTN time and the same source node ID. It cannot be used to assert the validity of a bundle (which could
be done with BPSEC BIB).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">BP implementations and/or applications using BP need to be able to deal with duplicate bundles (e.g., copies of a bundle forwarded via different routes; re-transmission of bundles
which appeared to be lost). So, to me the worrying aspect of replay attacks would be denial-of-service which we could try to counter with network security monitoring.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Felix<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Vint Cerf <<a href="mailto:vint@google.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">vint@google.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 28, 2024 1:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Felix Flentge <<a href="mailto:Felix.Flentge@esa.int" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Felix.Flentge@esa.int</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jackson, Jonathan W. (MSFC-HP27)[MOSSI2] <<a href="mailto:jonathan.w.jackson@nasa.gov" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">jonathan.w.jackson@nasa.gov</a>>; <a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Sis-dtn] BPv7 RIDs and Updates<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Felix, I just realized that I conflated sequence counter and timestamp handling. My understanding now is that what is thought to be unique about a packet's identification is the combination of time-stamp/node
ID/sequence number within a time-interval which might be as short as 1 millisecond. As long as the rate at which bundles are produced does not exceed the value the sequence counter can reach over the course of a millisecond (or more?), this identification
will be unique. Assuming that understanding is correct, then we still need to think through predictive attacks (generate a bundle that will appear to be valid based on identification) and replay attacks. Does this sound like a correct understanding?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">vint<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">On Fri, Jun 28, 2024 at 2:23<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>AM Felix Flentge via SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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Hi, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
I would propose the following wording (making clear that we are not deviating from RfC 9171 and aligning terminology):<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
NOTE: Implementations may choose to use to manage a single, global timestamp sequence counter or manage individual timestamp sequence counters for disjunct sets of source node IDs . Sequence counters may be reset to zero whenever the current time advances by
one millisecond. The combination of source node ID and bundle creation time stamp can serve as a unique ID for an individual bundle.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">
Felix<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u><u></u></p>
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<b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jackson, Jonathan W. (MSFC-HP27)[MOSSI2] via SIS-DTN<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 27, 2024 6:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Sis-dtn] BPv7 RIDs and Updates<br>
<b>Importance:</b> High</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US">Hello All,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span lang="EN-US"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US">Attached is the updated BPv7 book and RID spreadsheet for Final Reviews.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US">We’ve drafted the following <b><span style="color:#4472c4">note</span></b> for RID 115 based on our discussion during today’s telecon:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span lang="EN-US"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black">RID#</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black">Paragraph Number</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black">RID Short Title</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black">From</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black">To</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black">Supporting Analysis</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black">115</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black">4.3.4</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black">Creation Timestamp Sequence Number Clarification</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black">The creation timestamp shall comprise the bundle creation time and the creation timestamp sequence number.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black">The creation timestamp shall comprise the bundle creation time and the creation timestamp sequence number.
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:red"><br>
</span><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#4472c4">NOTE: Implementations may choose to use the source node id and the creation timestamp sequence number. However, a global counter or a separate counter for each fully qualified source node ID is possible.</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black">Without this wording there is enough ambiguity to allow for implementors to either associate the sequence number of the creation timestamp
to a global counter which is the intent or on a per service basis potentially leading to unintended behavior.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span lang="EN-US"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span lang="EN-US"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US">Please let me know if you have any comments or questions.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span lang="EN-US"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span lang="EN-US"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span lang="EN-US">Thanks,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US">Jonathan</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">This message is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. It may contain proprietary information and/or protected content. Any unauthorised disclosure, use, retention or dissemination is prohibited. If you
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<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
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<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span class="m_-2835362779851731154gmailsignatureprefix">--
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Vint Cerf<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">until further notice<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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