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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Oh,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Maybe I have missed something. I would have thought that due to the amount of changes we need to have it. But if not, even better.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Felix<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de <Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 17, 2024 5:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Felix Flentge <Felix.Flentge@esa.int><br>
<b>Cc:</b> durst@mitre.org; sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org; Daniel Pettitt <Daniel.Pettitt@esa.int>; jordan.l.torgerson@jpl.nasa.gov<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Sis-dtn] [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: 28 March SIS-DTN telecon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Hi Felix, <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">1. Confirmed; to the best of my knowledge not yet agreed whether to put BPv7 in the title.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">2. Maybe I missed something, but do we really need a second agency review? Other than this, you are right about the numbering.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Tomaso<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt">
On 17. May 2024, at 16:31, Felix Flentge <<a href="mailto:Felix.Flentge@esa.int">Felix.Flentge@esa.int</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear All,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Coming back to this discussion. Is there anyone not agreeing that:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The BPv7 Blue Book will be CCSDS 734.2-B-2 ?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The book to be published for the second agency review (asap I hope) will be called CCSDS 734.2-P-1.2 (as the previous version for Agency review has been called CCSDS 734.2-P-1.1)?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Felix<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Robert C Durst <<a href="mailto:durst@mitre.org">durst@mitre.org</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 28, 2024 12:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de">Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de</a>; Felix Flentge <<a href="mailto:Felix.Flentge@esa.int">Felix.Flentge@esa.int</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>; Daniel Pettitt <<a href="mailto:Daniel.Pettitt@esa.int">Daniel.Pettitt@esa.int</a>>;
<a href="mailto:jordan.l.torgerson@jpl.nasa.gov">jordan.l.torgerson@jpl.nasa.gov</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Sis-dtn] [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: 28 March SIS-DTN telecon</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">All,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">Since I won’t be on today’s call, I figured I’d get my opinion on Leigh’s comment out early. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">Nothing prevents BPv6 from being supported or used operationally once the spec transitions to Silver status. Ground infrastructure can still support it, references to the spec still resolve. It’s not broken,
and it’s not withdrawn. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">We can and will add text to BPv7 to clearly state that it is different than BPv6 and that some systems, particularly multi-mission infrastructure, may be required to support both versions. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">When BPv6 transitions to Silver, I believe that we can add a note in the version history that points toward BPv7 as the standard for new missions and notes that support for both may be required in some systems. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">As to the document numbers, they’re different: 734.2-B-1 is NOT the same as 734.2-B-2. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">Should we reference BPv7 in the title? Maybe. I can ask Tom Gannett whether a change to the title is permitted or whether we can add a subtitle. I’ll also ask what our options are for including some text in the 734.2-B-1
document to make clear to readers that the two versions are distinct, that both may require support for some period of time, and that new starts should use the latest version of the standard (currently -2). <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"><br>
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<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">So my recommendation is to continue with the current numbering. I’ll check on title wording and text to be added to -1 as it transitions to silver. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">Bob<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div id="ms-outlook-mobile-signature">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">Get <a href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef">
Outlook for iOS</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"><b>From:</b> SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> on behalf of Tomaso de Cola via SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 28, 2024 3:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:Felix.Flentge@esa.int">Felix.Flentge@esa.int</a> <<a href="mailto:Felix.Flentge@esa.int">Felix.Flentge@esa.int</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a> <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>>;
<a href="mailto:Daniel.Pettitt@esa.int">Daniel.Pettitt@esa.int</a> <<a href="mailto:Daniel.Pettitt@esa.int">Daniel.Pettitt@esa.int</a>>;
<a href="mailto:jordan.l.torgerson@jpl.nasa.gov">jordan.l.torgerson@jpl.nasa.gov</a> <<a href="mailto:jordan.l.torgerson@jpl.nasa.gov">jordan.l.torgerson@jpl.nasa.gov</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Sis-dtn] [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: 28 March SIS-DTN telecon <o:p>
</o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt;mso-line-height-alt:.75pt"><span style="font-size:1.0pt;color:white">Hi Felix, As to your first observation, this is indeed the result of the process we started a few years ago. At that time we are all on the same
page that we needed to update the BPv6 book in order to have the BPv7 as new issue of that one,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">Hi Felix, <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">As to your first observation, this is indeed the result of the process we started a few years ago. At that time we are all on the same page that we needed to update the BPv6 book in order to have the BPv7 as
new issue of that one, thus implying that BPv6 would have been silverised. Because of that, we started pink sheets.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> If on the contrary we wanted to have BPv7 book and also keep BPv6, we should have started a new project, without claiming this to be an update of BPv6 book. In such a case we would have had the red book.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">For BPsec, it was slightly different because we had first an agency review of the once called streamlined security BP and then we decided later to “trash” it and restart with BPsec. Tom suggested to have this
as an evolution of that initial red book and having a second agency review, though formally was an exception. In any case it is about a new book, I.e. no update of an existing book, hence red instead of pink.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">In any case I concur that we have to agree on the next steps as soon as possible so that we have a plan before end of April and I see how to solve this situation with Tom and CESG, if the case.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">Tomaso<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:72.0pt">
On 28. Mar 2024, at 07:52, Felix Flentge <<a href="mailto:Felix.Flentge@esa.int">Felix.Flentge@esa.int</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">My (maybe wrong) assumption has always been that the new (BPv7) Blue Book will become 734.2-B-2 and that 734.2-B-1 will be silverized.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">We have a lot of documentation which included 734.2-B-1 with the expectation that this will be “updated” to 734.2-B-2 when the new book has been published by CCSDS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">(This sounds much less scary to people then saying that a standard will be replaced by a new standard once published although it means the same …).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">Anyway, this is important as we are trying to resolve the LNIS RIDs (and put out ICD, ITTs, etc for other activities). So, in general I think it is important to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]>Have a clear identifier for an upcoming standard which is *<b>stable</b>*, so that we can already refer to it by eg, “734.2-B-2, to be published”<o:p></o:p></p>
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<![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]>Have a way to refer to drafts that have been released for Agency reviews (this is not ideal but sometimes much better then referring (only) to the old standard). In CCSDS terms I believe that this should be red books. However, for some
reason we ended up with 734.2-P-1.1 for the new BP book (for BPSEC we have 734.5-R-2 which looks better). Having those allows to reference eg
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt">734.2-B-2, to be published (CCSDS profile of RFC 9171 - Bundle Protocol Version 7, see CCSDS Draft Recommended Standard 734.2-P-1.1)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">Whatever we do, we should conclude asap (ideally before the spring meetings; we have to finalise LNIS RID responses now).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt">Felix<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Tomaso de Cola via SIS-DTN<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 28, 2024 6:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:Edward.Birrane@jhuapl.edu">Edward.Birrane@jhuapl.edu</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>;
<a href="mailto:jordan.l.torgerson@jpl.nasa.gov">jordan.l.torgerson@jpl.nasa.gov</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Sis-dtn] [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: 28 March SIS-DTN telecon</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Hi Ed,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">The point is that we started the BPv7 as update of BPv6, so that a new issue of that book will be created. The BPv6 issue will be automatically obsoleted and that
version becoming silver. If we wanted to keep the two books alive in parallel, we should have started a new project for a brand new book, not the update of an existing one (that’s why we have a pink book instead of a red here)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">But as said I can check with Tom how to solve this situation if this is what we plan to do.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Tomaso</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Sent from my iPhone</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:108.0pt">
<span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:108.0pt">
<span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">On 28. Mar 2024, at 05:23, Birrane, Edward J. <<a href="mailto:Edward.Birrane@jhuapl.edu">Edward.Birrane@jhuapl.edu</a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"></span><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt">Leigh,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"> Completely agree that Bpv6 and Bpv7 are distinct things and MUST be uniquely identifiable through distinct CCSDS document numbers.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"> I, personally, like the construct of 734.2-B-1 (BPv6) and 734.2-B-2 (BPv7). It acknowledges that BPv7 is a new issue of bundle protocol and it preserves the requirement to keep the BPv6 ID unique and unchanged.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"> How has CCSDS handled this in the past? This cannot be the first time CCSDS has published a new issue of a blue book when the prior issue of the book was still in operational use.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt">-Ed<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">---<br>
Edward J. Birrane, III, Ph.D. (he/him/his)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Chief Engineer, Space Networking</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Space Systems Implementation Branch</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Space Exploration Sector</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory<br>
(W) 443-778-7423 / (F) 443-228-3839<br>
</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><b>From:</b> Torgerson, J. Leigh (US 332C) <<a href="mailto:jordan.l.torgerson@jpl.nasa.gov">jordan.l.torgerson@jpl.nasa.gov</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 27, 2024 8:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Birrane, Edward J. <<a href="mailto:Edward.Birrane@jhuapl.edu">Edward.Birrane@jhuapl.edu</a>>;
<a href="mailto:Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de">Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de</a>; <a href="mailto:durst@mitre.org">
durst@mitre.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Sis-dtn] [EXT] Re: 28 March SIS-DTN telecon<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt">Ed -- A bunch of ISS payloads use BPv6, the Korean KPLO mission uses BPv6, and continued operational support of BPv6 is required in the DSN.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt">From a contractual standpoint, the CCSDS Bluebook
<span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">734.2-B-1 is already IN a bunch of contractual documents, and is in the formal interagency DSN operations specifications and existing service agreements, so you should NOT eliminate BPv6 from the document named 734.2-B-1.
And, I doubt that anyone is going to buy in to the idea that we instead go back and retroactively modify a bunch of contacts, ICDs and international DSN operations interface documentation. Let’s not make CCSDS look silly.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">We all agree that anything new will use BPv7 – no argument there – and I doubt that any new work will be done by anyone that needs to reference 734.2-B-1 – but none
of us know that will be true; I can’t speak for JAXA or KARI or ISRO etc. From a contractual point-of-view, you could probably get away with silverizing 734.2-B-1 and call it 734.2-B-1-S , but please don’t cause problems with existing contracts, support requirements
and missions by using the same document number and title for something that is clearly incompatible with BPv6.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt">A new number and non-confusing title for a BPv7 Bluebook shouldn’t be difficult..<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt">Leigh<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black">SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> on behalf of "Birrane, Edward J. via SIS-DTN" <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"EXTERNAL-Birrane, Edward J (US 9300-Affiliate)" <<a href="mailto:Edward.Birrane@jhuapl.edu">Edward.Birrane@jhuapl.edu</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 12:57</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black">PM<br>
<b>To: </b>"<a href="mailto:Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de">Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de</a>" <<a href="mailto:Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de">Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de</a>>, "<a href="mailto:durst@mitre.org">durst@mitre.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:durst@mitre.org">durst@mitre.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[EXTERNAL] Re: [Sis-dtn] [EXT] Re: 28 March SIS-DTN telecon</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">The IETF perspective is the BPv6 was an experimental specification.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Existing operational missions (I am only aware of PACE?) must support BPv6 but there should not be an expectation of new work for BPv6 beyond required sustainment
of existing operational deployments.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">In my opinion.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">-Ed</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Sent with BlackBerry Work<br>
(<a href="https://urldefense.us/v3/__http:/www.blackberry.com__;!!PvBDto6Hs4WbVuu7!K38mP4rbU8jGUQyBg3xrTtPzITStOomm7OlVgpM2jUK1CbKp628TOhgAF_zEoCeN4LAr9_BsAIQumJolxI8EVk2t4UY$">www.blackberry.com</a>)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:108.0pt">
<span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> on behalf of: Tomaso de Cola via SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Date:
</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Wednesday, Mar 27, 2024 at 3:38</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">To:
</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:durst@mitre.org">durst@mitre.org</a> <<a href="mailto:durst@mitre.org">durst@mitre.org</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Cc:
</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a> <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Subject:
</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">[EXT] Re: [Sis-dtn] 28 March SIS-DTN telecon</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Concerning Leigh’s point, as soon as BPv7 book will be published as 734.2-B-2, the previous release I.e. BPv6 will become silver (I.e, obsoleted and maintained as
historical record). </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">If I’m not wrong we took this path exactly because we wanted CCSDS to go on only with BPv7 and “forget” about v6. Now if on the contrary it turns out that we would
like instead to keep both, maybe v6 for not that long I’ll check with Tom how to handle this situation. I’d expect that we could have a new number for v7 and issue a corrigendum for the title of v6 book.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">But first of all, we must agree on what we want to do here. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Tomaso</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Sent from my iPhone</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">On 27. Mar 2024, at 19:54, Robert C Durst via SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">All,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">I have arranged for someone to open the telecon line tomorrow, but I won’t be able to attend due to a conflict.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">*<b>If</b>* it seems like there is a quorum:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Please consider the draft agenda send previously and send me email if there are issues that need addressed.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:144.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt">
<span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Also, Leigh Torgerson sent the following comment on the BPv7 blue book that I think merits some consideration. We can discuss during the BPv7 discussion at the CCSDS meeting, but I’d like folks to consider this
beforehand:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black">Subject:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black">CCSDS BP Specs - late agency review comment</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:180.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">I wish to note that while BPv6 is, I assume, deprecated (where does it say that in any CCSDS docs, by the way?), we still have missions and users flying BPv6, and
in the future <u>continued support for bpv6 is required.</u></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:180.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:180.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">If a user wishes to write a new application that is designed for BPv6, do we put in the contract to write something that is compatible with BP as specified by 734.2-B-1
(which does not indicate any particular version of BP in its title), and then on another project using BPv7 specify 734.2-P-1.1 (which has the same title as 734.2-B-1)?? Do you seriously think that won’t be confusing??</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:180.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:180.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">If you are going to change a protocol in such a dramatic manner as to completely eliminate backward compatibility, from a System Engineering point of view, and as
one who has to help both projects and the DSN do the formal documentation of what service agreements are with external customers, I believe CCSDS is making a bad mistake not giving the Bluebooks SEPARATE numbers and titles that indicate that the specification
is for a particular protocol that is totally incompatible with another protocol with the same CCSDS book name.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:180.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:180.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">The recommendation is therefore to Change the title of the current BPv7 draft specification to “CCSDS BUNDLE PROTOCOL v7 SPECIFICATION”, assign it a new and non-confusing
CCSDS book number, and then to add to the title of the existing 2015 BPv6 734.2-B-1 the indication that it is for BPv6.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:180.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:180.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">This would be both sound System Engineering practice, as well as sound contractual practice in accordance with both FARs and UCC regulations.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:144.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Resulting questions:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">1)</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Should we publish BPv7 as a separately numbered Blue Book rather than an update to the previous Blue Book?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">2)</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Should we revise the Blue Book to retain support for both versions? (I haven’t begun to consider what *<b>that</b>* does to naming and so forth.)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">3)</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Should BPv6 be reaffirmed or eventually be transitioned to Silver (historical) status? If Silver, when?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">4)</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">What is the IETF posture on BPv6 (RFC 5050)? It is listed as an experimental protocol, while RFC9171 is “standards track,” but not yet an internet standard. There is no attempt in the IETF to maintain backward
compatibility, because nothing in the IETF world is using BPv6 operationally, unlike the CCSDS world.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">If there’s not a quorum, please ponder these and we’ll return to them later.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:108.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Thank you!<br>
Bob</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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