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Hi Ed,
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<div>The point is that we started the BPv7 as update of BPv6, so that a new issue of that book will be created. The BPv6 issue will be automatically obsoleted and that version becoming silver. If we wanted to keep the two books alive in parallel, we should
have started a new project for a brand new book, not the update of an existing one (that’s why we have a pink book instead of a red here)</div>
<div>But as said I can check with Tom how to solve this situation if this is what we plan to do.</div>
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<div>Tomaso<br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature">
<div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
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<blockquote type="cite">On 28. Mar 2024, at 05:23, Birrane, Edward J. <Edward.Birrane@jhuapl.edu> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Leigh,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Completely agree that Bpv6 and Bpv7 are distinct things and MUST be uniquely identifiable through distinct CCSDS document numbers.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> I, personally, like the construct of 734.2-B-1 (BPv6) and 734.2-B-2 (BPv7). It acknowledges that BPv7 is a new issue of bundle protocol and it preserves the requirement to keep the BPv6 ID
unique and unchanged. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> How has CCSDS handled this in the past? This cannot be the first time CCSDS has published a new issue of a blue book when the prior issue of the book was still in operational use.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">-Ed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">---<br>
Edward J. Birrane, III, Ph.D. (he/him/his)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Chief Engineer, Space Networking<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Space Systems Implementation Branch<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Space Exploration Sector<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory<br>
(W) 443-778-7423 / (F) 443-228-3839<br>
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Torgerson, J. Leigh (US 332C) <jordan.l.torgerson@jpl.nasa.gov>
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<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 27, 2024 8:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Birrane, Edward J. <Edward.Birrane@jhuapl.edu>; Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de; durst@mitre.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Sis-dtn] [EXT] Re: 28 March SIS-DTN telecon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Ed -- A bunch of ISS payloads use BPv6, the Korean KPLO mission uses BPv6, and continued operational support of BPv6 is required in the DSN.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From a contractual standpoint, the CCSDS Bluebook
</span>734.2-B-1 is already IN a bunch of contractual documents, and is in the formal interagency DSN operations specifications and existing service agreements, so you should NOT eliminate BPv6 from the document named 734.2-B-1. And, I doubt that anyone is
going to buy in to the idea that we instead go back and retroactively modify a bunch of contacts, ICDs and international DSN operations interface documentation. Let’s not make CCSDS look silly.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We all agree that anything new will use BPv7 – no argument there – and I doubt that any new work will be done by anyone that needs to reference 734.2-B-1 – but none of us know that will be true; I can’t speak for JAXA or KARI or ISRO etc.
From a contractual point-of-view, you could probably get away with silverizing 734.2-B-1 and call it 734.2-B-1-S , but please don’t cause problems with existing contracts, support requirements and missions by using the same document number and title for something
that is clearly incompatible with BPv6.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">A new number and non-confusing title for a BPv7 Bluebook shouldn’t be difficult..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Leigh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> on behalf of "Birrane, Edward J.
via SIS-DTN" <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"EXTERNAL-Birrane, Edward J (US 9300-Affiliate)" <<a href="mailto:Edward.Birrane@jhuapl.edu">Edward.Birrane@jhuapl.edu</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 12:57</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">PM<br>
<b>To: </b>"<a href="mailto:Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de">Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de</a>" <<a href="mailto:Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de">Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de</a>>, "<a href="mailto:durst@mitre.org">durst@mitre.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:durst@mitre.org">durst@mitre.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[EXTERNAL] Re: [Sis-dtn] [EXT] Re: 28 March SIS-DTN telecon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The IETF perspective is the BPv6 was an experimental specification.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Existing operational missions (I am only aware of PACE?) must support BPv6 but there should not be an expectation of new work for BPv6 beyond required sustainment of existing operational deployments.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In my opinion.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-Ed<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sent with BlackBerry Work<br>
(<a href="https://urldefense.us/v3/__http:/www.blackberry.com__;!!PvBDto6Hs4WbVuu7!K38mP4rbU8jGUQyBg3xrTtPzITStOomm7OlVgpM2jUK1CbKp628TOhgAF_zEoCeN4LAr9_BsAIQumJolxI8EVk2t4UY$">www.blackberry.com</a>)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt">SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> on behalf of: Tomaso de Cola via SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Date: </span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Wednesday, Mar 27, 2024 at 3:38</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt">PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt">To: </span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt"><a href="mailto:durst@mitre.org">durst@mitre.org</a> <<a href="mailto:durst@mitre.org">durst@mitre.org</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Cc: </span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt"><a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a> <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Subject: </span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt">[EXT] Re: [Sis-dtn] 28 March SIS-DTN telecon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Concerning Leigh’s point, as soon as BPv7 book will be published as 734.2-B-2, the previous release I.e. BPv6 will become silver (I.e, obsoleted and maintained as historical record).
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If I’m not wrong we took this path exactly because we wanted CCSDS to go on only with BPv7 and “forget” about v6. Now if on the contrary it turns out that we would like instead to keep both, maybe v6 for not that long I’ll check with Tom
how to handle this situation. I’d expect that we could have a new number for v7 and issue a corrigendum for the title of v6 book.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">But first of all, we must agree on what we want to do here. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Tomaso<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On 27. Mar 2024, at 19:54, Robert C Durst via SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have arranged for someone to open the telecon line tomorrow, but I won’t be able to attend due to a conflict.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">*<b>If</b>* it seems like there is a quorum:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo3">Please consider the draft agenda send previously and send me email if there are issues that need addressed.<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" start="2" type="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo6">Also, Leigh Torgerson sent the following comment on the BPv7 blue book that I think merits some consideration. We can discuss during the BPv7 discussion at the CCSDS meeting, but
I’d like folks to consider this beforehand:<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Subject: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">CCSDS BP Specs - late agency review comment</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">I wish to note that while BPv6 is, I assume, deprecated (where does it say that in any CCSDS docs, by the way?), we still have missions and users flying BPv6, and in the future
<u>continued support for bpv6 is required.</u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">If a user wishes to write a new application that is designed for BPv6, do we put in the contract to write something that is compatible with BP as specified by 734.2-B-1 (which does not indicate any particular version
of BP in its title), and then on another project using BPv7 specify 734.2-P-1.1 (which has the same title as 734.2-B-1)?? Do you seriously think that won’t be confusing??<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">If you are going to change a protocol in such a dramatic manner as to completely eliminate backward compatibility, from a System Engineering point of view, and as one who has to help both projects and the DSN do
the formal documentation of what service agreements are with external customers, I believe CCSDS is making a bad mistake not giving the Bluebooks SEPARATE numbers and titles that indicate that the specification is for a particular protocol that is totally
incompatible with another protocol with the same CCSDS book name.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">The recommendation is therefore to Change the title of the current BPv7 draft specification to “CCSDS BUNDLE PROTOCOL v7 SPECIFICATION”, assign it a new and non-confusing CCSDS book number, and then to add to the
title of the existing 2015 BPv6 734.2-B-1 the indication that it is for BPv6.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">This would be both sound System Engineering practice, as well as sound contractual practice in accordance with both FARs and UCC regulations.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Resulting questions:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in">1)<span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span>Should we publish BPv7 as a separately numbered Blue Book rather than an update to the previous Blue Book?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in">2)<span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span>Should we revise the Blue Book to retain support for both versions? (I haven’t begun to consider what *<b>that</b>* does to naming and so forth.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in">3)<span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span>Should BPv6 be reaffirmed or eventually be transitioned to Silver (historical) status? If Silver, when?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in">4)<span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span>What is the IETF posture on BPv6 (RFC 5050)? It is listed as an experimental protocol, while RFC9171 is “standards track,” but not yet an internet standard. There is no attempt in the IETF to maintain backward compatibility, because nothing in the
IETF world is using BPv6 operationally, unlike the CCSDS world.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If there’s not a quorum, please ponder these and we’ll return to them later.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you!<br>
Bob<o:p></o:p></p>
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