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<p class="MsoNormal">Out of curiosity, which use case are you pursuing that necessitates the transmission of big stuff over TC?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cheer,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tomaso<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="DE">Von:</span></b><span lang="DE"> hongcheng.yan@gmail.com <hongcheng.yan@gmail.com>
<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 22. März 2023 15:55<br>
<b>An:</b> gregory.g.greer <gregory.g.greer@nasa.gov><br>
<b>Cc:</b> de Cola, Tomaso <Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de>; marc.sanchez.net <marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov>; Jim.Bardgett <Jim.Bardgett@L3Harris.com>; sis-dtn <sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org>; greg.j.kazz <greg.j.kazz@jpl.nasa.gov><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> </span><span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">回复：</span><span lang="DE">[Sis-dtn] [EXTERNAL] Re: practical size of the TC frame<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">TC frame provides "segment header" while AOS frame provides "Multiplexing Protocol Data Unit (M_PDU)" to accommodate longer higher layer data unit.
<br>
Actually, we are currently conveying IPv6 packet(as long as 1280 bytes since the minimal MTU is 1280 as mandated in the RFC) over IPE + Encapsulation Packet + M_PDU + AOS, and planning to convey IPv6 packet over IPE + Encapsulation Packet + segment header +
TC.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Hongcheng Yan<br>
China Academy of Space Technolgy<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#89898C">---- </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#89898C">回复的原</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft JhengHei",sans-serif;color:#89898C">邮件</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#89898C">
----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Microsoft JhengHei",sans-serif;color:#89898C">发件人</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#89898C"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="word-break:break-all"><span style="color:#2C2C2E"><a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style="color:#1C83EB;text-decoration:none">Greer, Gregory G. (GSFC-583.0)[HAMMERS COMPANY, INC.] via SIS-DTN<sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#89898C">日期</span><span style="color:#89898C"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="word-break:break-all"><span style="color:#2C2C2E">2023</span><span style="font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#2C2C2E">年</span><span style="color:#2C2C2E">03</span><span style="font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#2C2C2E">月</span><span style="color:#2C2C2E">22</span><span style="font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#2C2C2E">日</span><span style="color:#2C2C2E">
01:13<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#89898C">收件人</span><span style="color:#89898C"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="word-break:break-all"><span style="color:#2C2C2E"><a href="mailto:Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de"><span style="color:#1C83EB;text-decoration:none">Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de</span></a></span><span style="font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#2C2C2E">、</span><span style="color:#2C2C2E"><a href="mailto:marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov"><span style="color:#1C83EB;text-decoration:none">Sanchez
Net, Marc (JPL-332H)[JPL Employee]<marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov></span></a></span><span style="font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#2C2C2E">、</span><span style="color:#2C2C2E"><a href="mailto:Jim.Bardgett@L3Harris.com"><span style="color:#1C83EB;text-decoration:none">Jim.Bardgett@L3Harris.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#89898C">抄送至</span><span style="color:#89898C"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="word-break:break-all"><span style="color:#2C2C2E"><a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style="color:#1C83EB;text-decoration:none">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a></span><span style="font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#2C2C2E">、</span><span style="color:#2C2C2E"><a href="mailto:greg.j.kazz@jpl.nasa.gov"><span style="color:#1C83EB;text-decoration:none">Kazz,
Greg J (JPL-312B)[JPL Employee]<greg.j.kazz@jpl.nasa.gov></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#89898C">主</span><span style="font-family:"Microsoft JhengHei",sans-serif;color:#89898C">题</span><span style="color:#89898C"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="word-break:break-all"><span style="color:#2C2C2E">Re: [Sis-dtn] [EXTERNAL] Re: practical size of the TC frame<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It is possible to use TC segmentation and to split a Space Packet or Encapsulation Packet payload across many TC frames, so the frame size limit is not a limitation on the payload that can be conveyed through the TC link. It is recommended
to put bundles inside Encapsulation Packets, which can be very large. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> on behalf of Tomaso de Cola via
SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"<a href="mailto:Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de">Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de</a>" <<a href="mailto:Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de">Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 6:39 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>"Sanchez Net, Marc (JPL-332H)[JPL Employee]" <<a href="mailto:marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov">marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov</a>>, "<a href="mailto:Jim.Bardgett@L3Harris.com">Jim.Bardgett@L3Harris.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:Jim.Bardgett@L3Harris.com">Jim.Bardgett@L3Harris.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>>, "Kazz, Greg J (JPL-312B)[JPL Employee]" <<a href="mailto:greg.j.kazz@jpl.nasa.gov">greg.j.kazz@jpl.nasa.gov</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[EXTERNAL] Re: [Sis-dtn] practical size of the TC frame<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Marc, Hi Jim,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Just a few additional bits to the discussion. The latest version of the TC C&S book (<a href="https://public.ccsds.org/Pubs/231x0b4e0.pdf">https://public.ccsds.org/Pubs/231x0b4e0.pdf</a>) now also includes the LDPC. See also below:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="399" height="293" style="width:4.1527in;height:3.0486in" id="Grafik_x0020_1" src="cid:image004.jpg@01D95D12.5F84BF30"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Moreover, with the advent of USLP (<a href="https://public.ccsds.org/Pubs/732x1b2.pdf">https://public.ccsds.org/Pubs/732x1b2.pdf</a>) longer frames are now allowed, up to roughly 64kbytes in size. Moreover, the USLP green book (<a href="https://public.ccsds.org/Pubs/700x1g1.pdf">https://public.ccsds.org/Pubs/700x1g1.pdf</a>)
also states that:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">Furthermore, although there is a maximum transfer frame length limitation due to the Frame Length field for TC in reference [9], the Telecommand Synchronization and Channel Coding specification
(reference [11]) allows multiple transfer frames within a Communications Link Transmission Unit (CLTU), so in principle, there is no frame number limitation; however, USLP (reference [3]) allows only one frame.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m also cc’ing Greg who can provide some more details.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hope it can help somehow<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tomaso<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="DE">Von:</span></b><span lang="DE"> SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>>
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Sanchez Net, Marc (US 332H) via SIS-DTN<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Montag, 20. März 2023 19:59<br>
<b>An:</b> <a href="mailto:Jim.Bardgett@L3Harris.com">Jim.Bardgett@L3Harris.com</a>;
<a href="mailto:Sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">Sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Sis-dtn] practical size of the TC frame<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Jim,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Some answers below in <span style="color:#4472C4">blue</span>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Marc Sanchez Net (332H)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Telecommunications Engineer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Jet Propulsion Laboratory<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Cell:</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="mailto:(617)%20953-7977"><span style="color:#0563C1">(617)
953-7977</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0070C0">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">|</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0070C0">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Email:</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim.Bardgett--- via SIS-DTN<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 27, 2023 5:03 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:Sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">Sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] [Sis-dtn] practical size of the TC frame<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hoping someone can point me in the right direction on this one. I’m assisting a colleague and we have questions about the frame size limitation:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo1">
Upper TC frame size is 1019. Is the size fixed to 1019? Can it be larger and what would the implications be?
<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#4472C4">The max size of a TC frame including header is 1024 bits. I believe this is due to the limited num. of bits in the header to encode the length of the
transfer frame.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="356" height="167" style="width:3.7083in;height:1.743in" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image005.jpg@01D95D12.5F84BF30"><o:p></o:p></p>
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<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2">
Lower TC Sync Ch Coding CLTU <o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#4472C4">Each TC frame must fit in one CLTU. Therefore, if using coding, you must fit the number of bits in a TC frame in an integer number of codewords at the
Sync & Coding layer. For example, if using BCH (64,56) and a TC frame of 1024 bits, each CLTU will have ceil(1024/56)=19 BCH codewords, the last of which will have padding bits.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">
Is there a size limitation for Lower TC protocol CLTU?<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#4472C4">On the lower end, you need at least one codeword per CLTU, so depending on which code you use, the limitation will vary. For BCH (64,56), the min size
of CLTU is 144 symbols, 16 for the start sequence, 64 for the BCH codeword (i.e., 1 BCH codeword), and 64 more for the tail sequence.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#4472C4">The upper limit on the CLTU size is given by the max TC frame size. Another factor is to ensure that the receiver maintains lock when start sequences
(which act as sync markers) are increasingly further apart, which depends on SNR conditions, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">
In at least one document it says:<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4">
TC transfer frame between the CLTU start/tail sequences has a max length of 1024 bytes<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I’m believing these are the right references for my question. Is that in error?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks and kind regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Jim Bardgett</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Sr. Manager Cyber – Networks | Ch. Technologist Ntwk Engn
</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt">MS Digital Forensics, BSE Electrical, CISSP, CEH, JNCIS-ENT/SEC</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#CF102D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#CF102D;text-transform:uppercase">Space and airborne systems / L3HARRIS TECHNOLOGIES</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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