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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks for clarifying the SANA – CCSDS relationship. I know there is always some uncertainty.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I am aware about the discussions in IETF and fully support the idea of introducing (sub-)authorities. I think Ed’s distinction between backward-compatibility (ie, the new scheme will be able to understand
the old one) and forward-compatibility (ie, nodes supporting the old scheme do not understand the new scheme) is correct. [This is why I would find it cleaner to give a new scheme number and specify the mapping / translation but that’s another discussion).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">So, I don’t see a reason why we should currently not discuss IPN node number assignment policies in the CCSDS WG. Of course, getting an overview about the pending changes in IETF in one of the next
DTN WG meeting is very much appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">From my point of view, it is something we should at least address partially right
<b>now</b>. The background is that we are deploying nodes in (operational) networks in the next months and I would like these nodes to use assigned numbers right from the start. It is more difficult to change later once these numbers have found their way into
ICDs, configuration, etc. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I have checked the current policy is (734.2-B1):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">“The registration policy for the registry shall be: no engineering review required; request must come from an identified CCSDS representative of a member, observer, or affiliate organization.”<span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">So, I guess we could just go ahead and ask for an allocation (in the 2-byte range)?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Unfortunately, the new CCSDS draft does not contain a SANA registration policy anymore (it has some text that assigned CBHE node numbers shall be used). Is this a problem (or something we may be
able to address via Pink Sheets later)? Having said this, the last thing I want to do is to introduce any delay in publication of the standard.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Felix<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> SIS-DTN <sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Marc Blanchet via SIS-DTN<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 20 January 2023 04:35<br>
<b>To:</b> Dr. Keith L Scott via SIS-DTN <sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Sis-dtn] IPN Node Number Assignment<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">BTW, I wrote that note below because when I was interacting with CCSDS people, specially in the early years of SANA, and even up to recently, people were not that used to registries and their management and the
“interaction” with protocol specifications. This type of work is more “in place” and known in IETF. So during CCSDS meetings, I often had to tell people that registries are there for the community and that all the rules are defined by and for the community.
I found often that people did not know it and were taking everything that they see on the SANA web site as granted. Hence my note. Again, if the current policy is not good enough, change it as you see fit.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Marc.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Le 19 janv. 2023 à 22:26, Marc Blanchet <<a href="mailto:marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca">marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Le 19 janv. 2023 à 21:08, Vint Cerf <<a href="mailto:vint@google.com">vint@google.com</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">this is a lot like IANA rules.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Exactly! One can only inspire from the great minds! ;-)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Marc.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">v<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 3:02 PM Marc Blanchet via SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">FYI, I'm the “creator” (I defined the idea (inspired by IANA), wrote the YB, be contracted to implement it) and have been the manager of SANA from the beginning until last year. So I’m not responding on behalf
of SANA, but I can give some background…<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">All registries managed by SANA have an allocation/assignment policy. That policy is not defined by SANA but by the community (aka ccsds area or working group). In some ways, the wg who defines the registry is
the “owner” of the registry; SANA is just the custodian: receive the requests, and apply the policy for allocations. So it is up to the working group to define or modify the policies. If the wg prefers an allocation by 5 and that the requestor has to send
a banana to SANA, then it will be done that way ;-). So if the current allocation policy is not good, make a resolution and modify it as you see fit.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Regards, Marc.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Le 19 janv. 2023 à 02:36, Felix Flentge via SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">I would like to discuss today or soon assignment of CBHE node numbers. As we get more and more (semi-)operational deployment, I think we all should make an effort to use assigned numbers (and not just numbers
< 100 for convenience).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">According to <a href="https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iana.org%2Fassignments%2Fbundle%2Fbundle.xhtml%23cbhe-node-numbers&data=05%7C01%7CFelix.Flentge%40esa.int%7C92d189a02f624d20e87108dafa9767cd%7C9a5cacd02bef4dd7ac5c7ebe1f54f495%7C0%7C0%7C638097825438231290%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bRsdG6dschILZFC9jgLck0Em3ufMuURlvM6XHbbB%2F5U%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563C1">Bundle
Protocol (iana.org)</span></a> SANA is managing the range <span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif">16384-2097151.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">In the (valuable) 2 byte range we have in SANA currently only one allocation:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<table class="MsoNormalTable" border="1" cellpadding="0" width="1440" style="width:1080.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt;background:white;border:solid #DDDDDD 1.0pt;border-bottom:solid #111111 1.0pt">
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<p style="margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">32768 - 33791</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<td valign="top" style="border:solid #DDDDDD 1.0pt;background:#F9F9F9;padding:6.0pt 7.5pt 6.0pt 7.5pt;box-sizing:content-box;display:table-cell">
<p style="margin-bottom:7.5pt;box-sizing:border-box"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"><a href="https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsanaregistry.org%2Fr%2Forganizations%2Frecords%2F53&data=05%7C01%7CFelix.Flentge%40esa.int%7C92d189a02f624d20e87108dafa9767cd%7C9a5cacd02bef4dd7ac5c7ebe1f54f495%7C0%7C0%7C638097825438231290%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ktRP5z71MQQaZxABTrpF4h5K11%2BJlMwdNvypIk90gR4%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="color:#337AB7">NASA
George C. Marshall Space Flight Center [1.3.112.4.1.19.3]</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">As we are deploying more nodes operationally, I would like to discuss the allocation of these 2 bytes node numbers (I understand it may be a SANA thing but I would prefer to have some consensus in the DTN WG first
before grabbing some numbers.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">I could imagine to assign the lower allocation (16384 – 32767) for private use (ie non-interoperable mission use; bundles using these numbers shall never cross the border between networks under different operational
authority).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">For the higher 2-byte range, I would propose handing out blocks of 1024 numbers (like for MSFC) to CCSDS member agencies. 1024 numbers may seem a lot but it would allow to have some internal logic for assignment
(e.g., a block for Earth-bound nodes; obviously such information shall not be used for routing)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Some questions:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]>Could an Agency request more than one block? Maybe only if well justified, e.g. if the other allocation is used up.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]>Should we have rules that at least some numbers in an allocation have to be used, otherwise the allocation will be freed up again (like frequencies)?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]>What about commercial entities that would like to deploy nodes?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Felix<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
SIS-DTN mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:SIS-DTN@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank">SIS-DTN@mailman.ccsds.org</a><br>
<a href="https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.ccsds.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsis-dtn&data=05%7C01%7CFelix.Flentge%40esa.int%7C92d189a02f624d20e87108dafa9767cd%7C9a5cacd02bef4dd7ac5c7ebe1f54f495%7C0%7C0%7C638097825438231290%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=M4ZeiUPopsd9xjWINTrE5rHHgD%2BSPUKy%2Bqys2rO%2ByrE%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sis-dtn</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to:<o:p></o:p></p>
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