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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear Peter,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thank you for your kind support and availability for helping us in finding a suitable solution.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Indeed the two options you have mentioned are also those we have put on the table as possible solutions, although both of them show pros and cons and therefore compromise and agreement/consensus
between the parties will have to be reached. This discussion will keep on going during the next DTN telco as well as the official CCSDS DTN WG Fall meetings in order to reach soon an agreed approach as also mentioned by Keith in a previous e-mail. In case
no solution will be agreed, then I’ll certainly bring this point in the SIS area summary at the CESG meeting in November in order to find a way out for this impasse. Obviously, I’ll certainly count on your and other CESG colleagues suggestions to move forward
and more importantly to avoid any postponed decision that would be detrimental to the activities of the DTN WG.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Best Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Tomaso<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Shames, Peter M (US 312B) <peter.m.shames@jpl.nasa.gov>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Samstag, 9. Oktober 2021 01:26<br>
<b>To:</b> Kevin K Gifford <kevin.gifford@colorado.edu>; Dr. Keith L Scott <kscott@mitre.org>; Cola, Tomaso de <Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de>; Sanchez Net, Marc (US 332H) <marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov><br>
<b>Cc:</b> sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] RE: LTP vs LTPv2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Guys,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">As a long term member of the CESG I do agree that you can kick it “upstairs” to the CESG and have, I believe, a hope of getting a sensible response (most of the time). Heck, we are human and therefore fallible.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">From my own point of view I recommend doing two things:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span lang="EN-US">As I understand it, they are different protocols, hence not “backward compatible”. Using the “version” option, including, in this case, adopting some explicit name
extension like LTPv2 makes the most sense to me. The rationale for that is that what you plan to produce is not backward compatible with v1. In other words, there is no way to configure V2, without the new options, and still have a v1 implementation accept
it. <o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span lang="EN-US">Silverize the v1 book. This is normally done when a new protocol version is created. The old silver book will still be available and it may be referenced with
its (new) silver name and number. This has happened before with other specs. It is not unusual for some mission to nail their interface to some specific version of a document, even, in some cases, a Red Book (which is really dangerous since they are likely
to change). <o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">If you want to discuss this further please let me know. And it you do decide to send it to the CESG you now know where I stand, and why. Of course, if any of my assumptions are flawed I am happy to be corrected.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Cheers, Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Kevin K Gifford <<a href="mailto:kevin.gifford@colorado.edu">kevin.gifford@colorado.edu</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, October 8, 2021 at 11:58 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Keith Scott <<a href="mailto:kscott@mitre.org">kscott@mitre.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de">Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de</a>" <<a href="mailto:Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de">Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de</a>>, Marc Sanchez Net <<a href="mailto:marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov">marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>>, Peter Shames <<a href="mailto:peter.m.shames@jpl.nasa.gov">peter.m.shames@jpl.nasa.gov</a>>, Kevin
K Gifford <<a href="mailto:kevin.gifford@colorado.edu">kevin.gifford@colorado.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] RE: LTP vs LTPv2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Hi SIS-DTN - <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">FWIW, I want to emphasize that the CESG does a great job in this regard (fixing issues that arise in WGs or inter-WG conflicts or inter-agency conflicts).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">-- Keith was a member of the CESG for several years and understands this vital role that the CESG plays in issues such as this<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Thus, my
<b>two cents worth</b> is await CESG advice as well as Keith already stated (I wanted to maybe ease any queasiness in regard to CESG involvement/inputs).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Kevin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span lang="EN-US">
<hr size="1" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div>
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"> SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> on behalf of Dr. Keith L Scott <<a href="mailto:kscott@mitre.org">kscott@mitre.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 8, 2021 12:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de">Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de</a> <<a href="mailto:Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de">Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de</a>>;
<a href="mailto:marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov">marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov</a> <<a href="mailto:marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov">marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a> <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Sis-dtn] [EXT] RE: LTP vs LTPv2</span><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US">OK fine, if the CESG decides to not rule on it, great, we’ll make a decision in the WG and they can live with it (and we can certainly discuss it SOME in the WG; don’t want to put too much time into it until the CESG
is at least given a chance to get us out of this).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US"> --keith<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="xmsonormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><a href="mailto:Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de">Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de</a> <<a href="mailto:Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de">Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, October 8, 2021 at 10:04 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Dr. Keith L Scott <<a href="mailto:kscott@mitre.org">kscott@mitre.org</a>>,
<a href="mailto:marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov">marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov</a> <<a href="mailto:marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov">marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a> <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [EXT] RE: LTP vs LTPv2</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="xmsonormal">Hi Keith,<span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal">I agree with your point on troubles in maintaining two books and the fact that this will imply the same treatment for BPv7. Then whether agencies are happy to refer to a silver book rather than a blue book is a bit question mark in my
opinion. I remember we decided a few years ago not to silverize SCPS-TP exactly because there were activities or usage of the corresponding blue book.<span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal">We can certainly bring this matter to the next CESG meeting, although I fear that there might be no strict decision in this regard, since I think there is no specific rule again either approaches and the hot potato could be sent back to
WG.<span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal">Regards,<span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal">Tomaso<span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Dr. Keith L Scott <<a href="mailto:kscott@mitre.org">kscott@mitre.org</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Freitag, 8. Oktober 2021 15:52<br>
<b>To:</b> Cola, Tomaso de <<a href="mailto:Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de">Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de</a>>;
<a href="mailto:marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov">marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [EXT] RE: LTP vs LTPv2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"> <span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US">I don’t like it, but I propose that the WG move forward with developing the book and you bring up the new-version vs. new-book issue to the CESG.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US">Reasons I don’t like the two-book solution:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="xmsolistparagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo6"><span lang="EN-US">So now we’re maintaining two versions of LTP, which version are folks supposed to choose for missions going forward? They’ll choose the one with flight heritage,
right?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="xmsolistparagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo6"><span lang="EN-US">We’ll have to do the same thing with BPv7<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="xmsolistparagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo6"><span lang="EN-US">There’s a version number in the header; receivers will know what was sent.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="xmsolistparagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo6"><span lang="EN-US">The book as Silver is still reference-able. If folks have systems they’re building to the current (v1) book, they can switch to referencing the silver book.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="xmsolistparagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo6"><span lang="EN-US">Why don’t we do that with ALL CCSDS books, backward-compatible or not?<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">--keith<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><a href="mailto:Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de">Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de</a> <<a href="mailto:Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de">Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, October 8, 2021 at 4:19 AM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov">marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov</a> <<a href="mailto:marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov">marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov</a>>, Dr. Keith L Scott <<a href="mailto:kscott@mitre.org">kscott@mitre.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a> <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[EXT] RE: LTP vs LTPv2</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal">Then probably we should better keep two books, one with the “old LTP” for which we’ll do some pink sheets to fix some inconsistencies and another one (the new LTP). In such a away we could have two versions of LTP available, similarly
to IPv4 and IPv6 in IETF. Probably we may have to slightly change the title of the books (v1 and v2?) to have a clear demarcation between the two version of the protocols and avoid any ambiguity.<span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><a id="OWAAM96555CF48B764E5BAB1B13676ABD30FC" href="mailto:kscott@mitre.org"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;text-decoration:none">@Scott, Keith L.</span></a>:what do you think?<span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal">Tomaso<span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Sanchez Net, Marc (US 332H) via SIS-DTN<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Donnerstag, 7. Oktober 2021 00:21<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Sis-dtn] LTP vs LTPv2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"> <span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US">All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US">I had to leave today’s meeting early. Did we reach consensus on how to proceed?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US">Also, I will note that some colleagues at JPL (I have similar concerns) do not really like the idea of turning the current version of LTP into a silver book. The problem is that, by definition, a silver book implies
that a protocol is deprecated or obsolete, but several systems that are being built today use BPv6+LTP or BPv7+LTP and thus might be in operation for a long time. So, essentially, we are “telling” industry that they have developed an already obsolete standard?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US">-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US">Marc Sanchez Net<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Telecommunications Engineer</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Jet Propulsion Laboratory</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Office:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><a href="tel:(818)%20393-5840" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0070C0">(818)
354-1650</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0070C0">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">|</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0070C0">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Email:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><a href="mailto:marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US">-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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