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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Felix,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Interesting, I see your use case. So we are essentially achieving “semi-automatic” retransmission of data across multiple (possibly consecutive) ground passes, which is something that we could do in BPv6 because the custody transfer signals
were routed with CGR (i.e., they were aware of disconnections and the fact that some links were downlink-only), whereas with BIBE they are not (since BIBE is a convergence layer).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Looking forward to discussing this more over the CCSDS fall meetings.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Marc Sanchez Net<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Telecommunications Engineer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Jet Propulsion Laboratory<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Office:</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><a href="tel:(818)%20393-5840" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0070C0">(818)
354-1650</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0070C0">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">|</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0070C0">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Email:</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><a href="mailto:marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov</span></a><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Felix.Flentge@esa.int <Felix.Flentge@esa.int> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 6, 2021 4:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Sanchez Net, Marc (US 332H) <marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Dr. Keith L Scott <kscott@mitre.org>; Pitts, Robert L. (MSFC-HP27)[HOSC SERVICES CONTRACT] <robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov>; Simon Singh <simon.singh@eknoworks.com>; sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Compressed Bundle Reporting (CBR) & Custody Transfer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Hi Marc,</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">1. We would use an administrative record. If it would be included in some other way in the payload block, we would need to have something (a new bundle processing flag?) to indicate that it's not
data. If it would be an extension block, we would have the additional processing at intermediate nodes (as pointed out by Simon) and I am not sure about a clean way to deliver the information to the application.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">2. Yes, we are pushing the problem of re-transmission to the application (agent). For our scenarios, I am thinking of a specific command to re-transmit all bundles that have not been reported as
'received', yet. This would work for example in situations with receive only ground stations (which would generate CRS and forward them to a central node at mission control for eventual uplink). Once there is a pass over an uplink ground station, first the
CRS would be uplinked and then a TC to re-transmit missing data would be sent. Of course, depending on the situations, other mechanisms would be feasible (even having timers again).</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Regards,<br>
Felix</span> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">From: </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"Sanchez Net, Marc (US 332H)" <</span><a href="mailto:marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">></span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">To: </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"Simon Singh" <</span><a href="mailto:simon.singh@eknoworks.com"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">simon.singh@eknoworks.com</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">>,
"</span><a href="mailto:Felix.Flentge@esa.int"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Felix.Flentge@esa.int</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">" <</span><a href="mailto:Felix.Flentge@esa.int"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Felix.Flentge@esa.int</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">></span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Cc: </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"SIS-DTN" <</span><a href="mailto:sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">>,
"Pitts, Robert L. (MSFC-HP27)[HOSC SERVICES CONTRACT]" <</span><a href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">>,
"Dr. Keith L Scott" <</span><a href="mailto:kscott@mitre.org"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">kscott@mitre.org</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">></span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Date: </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">02/09/2021 18:00</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Subject: </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Compressed Bundle Reporting (CBR) & Custody Transfer</span>
<span style="color:blue"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center">
<hr size="2" width="100%" noshade="" style="color:#A0A0A0" align="center">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">Hi Felix,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">Just reading your email, a couple of questions popped up:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">1. </span>How is the CRS sent? Is it its own bundle, or can it be carried as an extension block too?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">2. </span>You said “no timers”, and I understand what you mean. But how would the application handle the fact that it has not received a CRS for
a bundle that requested it? In fact, how does it know that it is not just in transit? The reason I ask is because I it seems to me we may be just pushing the problem up one layer in the protocol stack, from bundle to application.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">I agree that if we move forward with this, it would be great to design the protocol so that DTPC can just use it for end-to-end reliability.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">Looking forward to discussing more on this topic.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">Marc Sanchez Net<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Telecommunications Engineer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Jet Propulsion Laboratory</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Office:</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2F2F2F">
</span><a href="tel:(818)%20393-5840" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0082BF">(818) 354-1650</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0082BF">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">|</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0082BF">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Email:</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2F2F2F">
</span><a href="mailto:marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b>From:</b> Simon Singh <<a href="mailto:simon.singh@eknoworks.com">simon.singh@eknoworks.com</a>>
<b><br>
Sent:</b> Thursday, September 2, 2021 10:38 AM<b><br>
To:</b> <a href="mailto:Felix.Flentge@esa.int">Felix.Flentge@esa.int</a><b><br>
Cc:</b> SIS-DTN <<a href="mailto:sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>>; Sanchez Net, Marc (US 332H) <<a href="mailto:marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov">marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov</a>>; Pitts, Robert L. (MSFC-HP27)[HOSC SERVICES
CONTRACT] <<a href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov">robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov</a>>; Dr. Keith L Scott <<a href="mailto:kscott@mitre.org">kscott@mitre.org</a>><b><br>
Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: Compressed Bundle Reporting (CBR) & Custody Transfer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">Hi Felix,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">I had been thinking about compressing BSR to combat the problem of proliferation of the BSRs, again along the same approach as used in Custody Signal. However, BSR would still go to the report_to EID, as originally
intended (note that it could source_EID as well).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">I see that your primary focus is towards some mechanism similar to custody transfer, though not replacing CT, as you already noted. Looks like things can be improved by compressing BSR.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">There is also a somewhat related problem where BSR is needed but there is no need for multiple BSR. E.g. when a node is not capable of processing a new extension block (just like a new defined CREB -
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Compressed Reporting Extension Block ) and extension block is requesting a BSR (see below for requesting flag definition). Once we know that the node can't process this kind of block, there is no
need for BSR for each bundle containing the offending extension block.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">// for reference</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">. Bit 1(0x02): transmission of a status report is requested if block can't be processed.</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Another suggestion would be to see if Custody Signal can be improved by including more than one Disposition Codes. Currently, it is confined to one Disposition
Code. So, if the next custodian wants to send back two different disposition codes (e.g. it accepted some bundles, but then ran out space and rejected custody for the rest of the bundles), then it would need to send two different CSs.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">There is also a problem of losing a CS. It can trigger a number of retransmissions. The problem is that the reliability of the CS is the same as the reliability
of a normal bundle. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">I look forward to your presentation.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">Best regards<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">Simon Singh<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">+1 443 538 7176 Cell<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 9:38 AM <<a href="mailto:Felix.Flentge@esa.int">Felix.Flentge@esa.int</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Dear All,</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
just to let you know: we have started discussing/working/prototyping a 'Compressed Bundle Reporting' mechanism which we intend to use as a replacement for BPv6 custody transfer in some scenarios. The basic idea is to define:</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
a) a Compressed Reporting Extension Block (CREB) which allows to request reporting of bundle reception, delivery, forwarding or deletion</span>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
b) a Compressed Reporting Signal (CRS) administrative record to efficiently report of reception/delivery/forwarding/deletion as requested (using a similar transmission ID approach as in BIBE)</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
The reporting signals will be provided to the sending application which could eg keep a record which bundles have been received by an intermediate node.</span>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
In our scenarios, we would trigger re-sending of bundles which have not been reported as received by an explicit application level command (thus avoiding the timers).</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
I assume such a mechanism could be useful to others as well in scenarios where one would have applied BPv6 custody transfers. The difference to BIBE-CT is mainly:</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">no timers; no re-transmission as part of the protocol (the application decides what to do)</span>
<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">we do not need to know in advance which node will send a response; in our case, we are just interested to know whether a bundle has been received by some ground node as we can assume terrestrial
bundle transfer to be reliable (based on TCPCL).</span> <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3">
<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I should maybe stress that this mechanism does not allow for a real replacement of BPv6 custody transfer as re-transmission would be always done from the source node (intermediate
nodes do not take custody; at least, unless specific applications for that would be implemented). In this sense, there is some similarity with DTPC Transmission Service without in-sequence delivery but getting reporting signals from intermediate nodes (actually,
it may be interesting to see whether an updated DTCP could make use of CRS containing delivery signals).</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
Anyway, I would suggest to present and discuss these ideas in more detail in one of the next WG meetings.</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
Regards,</span> <span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
Felix</span> <br>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F"><br>
From: </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"Dr. Keith L Scott" <</span><a href="mailto:kscott@mitre.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">kscott@mitre.org</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">></span>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F"><br>
To: </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"Sanchez Net, Marc (US 332H)" <</span><a href="mailto:marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">>,
"Simon Singh" <</span><a href="mailto:simon.singh@eknoworks.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">simon.singh@eknoworks.com</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">>, "Pitts, Robert
L. (MSFC-HP27)[HOSC SERVICES CONTRACT]" <</span><a href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">></span>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F"><br>
Cc: </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"</span><a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"
<</span><a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">></span>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F"><br>
Date: </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">01/09/2021 19:30</span>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F"><br>
Subject: </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Re: [Sis-dtn] [EXTERNAL] Custody Transfer query</span>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F"><br>
Sent by: </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"SIS-DTN" <</span><a href="mailto:sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center">
<hr size="2" width="100%" noshade="" style="color:#A0A0A0" align="center">
</div>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:2.5in;margin-left:0in">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">A little expansion;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">1. </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">With BPv6 custody transfer, nodes are not REQUIRED to take custody; a node may simply forward a bundle
without taking custody, leaving the current custodian alone. This exacerbates the problem of trying to set a retransmission timer since the current custodian doesn’t have a protocol-enforced contract for who the next custodian will be.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">2. </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">The above problem is FURTHER exacerbated by fragmentation (though *<b>I</b>* believe this is largely semantic
and that workable solutions exist). The ideas is that if I’m the custodian for a 1,000-byte bundle, and somebody downstream fragments it without taking custody, I can now get custody-acceptance signals for pieces of that bundle – pieces I never knew existed.
So what do I do, especially if the retransmission timer (that I had trouble setting inf the first place) goes off? Do I retransmit the entire bundle, do I make fragments out of the bundle I have and retransmit all the un-custody-acked pieces?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">So, in lieu of trying to solve the above, we opted for an approach where the custodian gets to affirmatively KNOW who’s going to take custody, and as a side-effect of BIBE-tunneling
the custodial bundle to the next custodian, we can assert that the next custodial can/will take custody of the ENTIRE bundle.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Not *<b>my</b>* favorite solution, but there are definitely benefits.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> v/r,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> --keith</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt">SIS-DTN <</span><a href="mailto:sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt">> on behalf of Sanchez Net,
Marc (US 332H) via SIS-DTN <</span><a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt">><b><br>
Date: </b>Friday, August 20, 2021 at 11:41 AM<b><br>
To: </b>Simon Singh <</span><a href="mailto:simon.singh@eknoworks.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">simon.singh@eknoworks.com</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt">>, Pitts, Robert L. (MSFC-HP27)[HOSC SERVICES CONTRACT] <</span><a href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt">><b><br>
Cc: </b></span><a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <</span><a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt">><b><br>
Subject: </b>Re: [Sis-dtn] [EXTERNAL] Custody Transfer query</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I believe one of the main reasons for the switch of custody transfer to BIBE is the inability to meaningfully/properly set the custody transfer retransmission timer in BPv6. This happens
because at the Bundle Layer there is no way to tell which route a bundle will take to destination, or whether it will be fragmented on its way to it, so it is impossible to figure out what is a good value of the retransmit timer.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">BIBE is supposed to be a convergence layer for the Bundle Protocol which acts as a hop-to-hop protocol rather than an end-to-end protocol. Therefore, since in BIBE you know explicitly
which is the destination node to which the bundle will be sent, and there is no possibility for further fragmentation, you can have a better idea of the correct value for the retransmission timer (much like in LTP).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">BIBE’s other motivation is security. By allowing you to encapsulate a bundle within another bundle, you can achieve functionality that is similar to a VPN in which encapsulated bundles
are fully encrypted and possibly authenticated (fully meaning that both the payload and the header are encrypted).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Marc Sanchez Net</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Telecommunications Engineer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Jet Propulsion Laboratory</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Office:</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2F2F2F">
</span><a href="tel:(818)%20393-5840" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0082BF">(818) 354-1650</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0082BF">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">|</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0082BF">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Email:</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2F2F2F">
</span><a href="mailto:marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">marc.sanchez.net@jpl.nasa.gov</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> SIS-DTN <</span><a href="mailto:sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt">>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Simon Singh<b><br>
Sent:</b> Friday, August 20, 2021 8:09 AM<b><br>
To:</b> Pitts, Robert L. (MSFC-HP27)[HOSC SERVICES CONTRACT] <</span><a href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt">><b><br>
Cc:</b> </span><a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> Re: [Sis-dtn] [EXTERNAL] Custody Transfer query</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Thanks Lee.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I came across this, probably from Scott Burleigh. Any idea about "<b>serious potential operational anomalies."</b></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">"</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">The “<b>custody transfer</b>” function is removed from BP and is defined instead in a new bundle-in-bundle encapsulation specification, to improve its efficiency and address several
<b>serious potential operational anomalies</b>."</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Best regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Simon Singh</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">+1 443 538 7176 Cell</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 8:16 AM Pitts, Robert L. (MSFC-HP27)[HOSC SERVICES CONTRACT] <</span><a href="mailto:robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">robert.l.pitts@nasa.gov</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt">>
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#004080">I don’t know the exact reason but it was initiated in the IETF. Scott may be a better source.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#004080"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#004080">Lee</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#004080"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> SIS-DTN <</span><a href="mailto:sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">sis-dtn-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt">>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Simon Singh<b><br>
Sent:</b> Friday, August 20, 2021 1:52 AM<b><br>
To:</b> Blanding, Beau T. (MSFC-HP27)[HOSC SERVICES CONTRACT] <</span><a href="mailto:beau.t.blanding@nasa.gov" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">beau.t.blanding@nasa.gov</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt">>;
</span><a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> [EXTERNAL] [Sis-dtn] Custody Transfer query</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Hi,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I would appreciate it if someone can provide insight regarding the following query.. Thanks</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">What was the motivation to move from BP6 style of custody transfer to one using BIBE?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Best regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Simon Singh</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">+1 443 538 7176 Cell</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 7:58 AM Blanding, Beau T. (MSFC-HP27)[HOSC SERVICES CONTRACT] via SIS-DTN <</span><a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt">>
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Good morning all,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Attached are BPv7 Red Book Discussion Topics from MSFC. We (MSFC) provide our opinions on how the topics listed within should be managed. Please provide your input via email on these
topics so that we may take them into account as we write sections for the BPv7 book. If we run into a discussion that isn’t resolving over email, we will resolve in the SIS-DTN forum.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:16.0pt">Beau Blanding</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">HOSC Systems Engineer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">MSFC 4663, Office C121</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><a href="mailto:beau.t.blanding@nasa.gov" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">beau.t.blanding@nasa.gov</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">-----Original Appointment-----<b><br>
From:</b> Dr. Keith L Scott <</span><a href="mailto:kscott@mitre.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">kscott@mitre.org</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt">>
<b><br>
Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 7, 2021 9:47 AM<b><br>
To:</b> Dr. Keith L Scott; </span><a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
Cc:</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> Navas, Tiffany A. (GSFC-581.0)[MTI SYSTEMS, INC.]; Torgerson, J. Leigh (JPL-332C)[JPL Employee]; HAMILTON, PAUL A. (JSC-EV811); Matusow, Carla L. (GSFC-4502); Strege, Susanne L. (GSFC-5830); LACY, SETH L DR-04 USAF
AFMC AFRL/RVEN; Mayer, Jeremy P. (JSC-OT/ESA)[EUROPEAN SPACE AGENCY]; Burleigh, Scott C (JPL-312B)[JPL Employee]; Deaton, Joshua E. (MSFC-HP27)[HOSC SERVICES CONTRACT];
</span><a href="mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt">;
</span><a href="mailto:Felix.Flentge@esa.int" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Felix.Flentge@esa.int</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt">; Bryant, Deann (MSFC-HP27); Wright, James R. (MSFC-HP27)[BIOSERVE Univ of CO]; George, Sandy (MSFC-IS40)[NICS];
Heiner, Sarah E.; Kazmi, Syeda A. (GSFC-5830); </span><a href="mailto:Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Tomaso.deCola@dlr.de</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt">; Durkin, Alexander E. (GSFC-5830)<b><br>
Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] [Sis-dtn] SIS-DTN Telecon<b><br>
When:</b> Wednesday, August 11, 2021 11:00 AM-12:00 PM (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada).<b><br>
Where:</b> Microsoft Teams Meeting</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">20210407 – Just refreshing the calendar invite in case it got dropped somewhere.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Folks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I’d like to set up some recurring SIS-DTN meetings to talk about our current work items. I’ve set these for every 2 weeks; if it looks like we don’t need to meet that often I’ll drop
it down to monthly.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I’m proposing Wednesdays 11am; I get that this time won’t work for everyone, but let’s see how many can make it and if we have to we’ll hunt for a different time.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> v/r,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> --keith</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#5F5F5F">________________________________________________________________________________</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#2F2F2F">Microsoft Teams meeting</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#2F2F2F">
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<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#2F2F2F">Or call in (audio only)</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#2F2F2F">
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<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#5F5F5F">________________________________________________________________________________</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
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