<font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thank you, Keith.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">A few more considerations here below.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
For (non normative) section 2.1 I do concur to </font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"> leave
it to the mission designer to decide exactly what CFDP runs over (BP, Encapsulation,
…)</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">So, after a further thought (due to
your comment :o) it may be the best is to reword the paragraph to something
like the (improvable) text below.</font>
<br><font size=2 color=blue face="sans-serif">CFDP supports the following
classes. </font>
<br><font size=2 color=blue face="sans-serif">– Class
1—Unreliable CFDP Transfer;</font>
<br><font size=2 color=blue face="sans-serif">– Class
2—Reliable CFDP Transfer;</font>
<br><font size=2 color=blue face="sans-serif">Each of the classes can be
supported over the DTN Bundle Protocol (reference [19]).</font>
<br><font size=2 color=blue face="sans-serif">Class 1 is best used over
reliable DTN "UT layer" stack while Class 2 can be used also
over unreliable DTN "UT layer" stack.</font>
<br><font size=2 color=blue face="sans-serif">Morevore, both classes can
also be operated over the Encapsulation Service (reference [722.1-M-1]).</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">For </font><font size=2 face="Arial">Clause
4.2.2.2.2</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"> I wait for a consolidated
proposal. However keep in mind that also other data link protocols offer
VCA service.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">For </font><font size=2 face="Arial">Clause
4.3.5 </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif">, I always thought that CFDP
directly over LTP was not allowed.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">If this is not the case, this should
be reflected first in the relevant documents (e.g. CFDP section </font><font size=2 face="Courier New">3.4
SERVICES REQUIRED OF THE UNDERLYING COMMUNICATION SYSTEM</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif">?).</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Even if the text is in the "e.g."
part, we shall not extend standards by making comments in other books.
So I definitively agree in making a NOTE (I guess that avoiding "e.g."
in normative should be a good practice though I cannot declare myself innocent
in this respect).</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Regards</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Gian Paolo</font>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">From:
</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">"Scott, Keith
L." <kscott@mitre.org></font>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">To:
</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">"osvaldo.peinado@dlr.de"
<osvaldo.peinado@dlr.de>, "Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int"
<Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int>, </font>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Cc:
</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">"sis-mia@mailman.ccsds.org"
<sis-mia@mailman.ccsds.org>, "sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org"
<sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org></font>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Date:
</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">25/11/2014 13:39</font>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Subject:
</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">RE: Quick comments:
[CESG] SIS Resolution to submit Voice and Audio Communications Red Book
for processing and CESG Polling for Agency Review (SIS-R-2014-11-003)</font>
<br>
<hr noshade>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri">I’m pulling in the MIA and
DTN lists here.</font>
<br><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Wingdings">Ø </font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri">My
responses to some of Gian Paolo’s comments inline below.</font>
<br><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri">
--keith</font>
<br><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Calibri"><b>From:</b> osvaldo.peinado@dlr.de [</font><a href=mailto:osvaldo.peinado@dlr.de><font size=2 face="Calibri">mailto:osvaldo.peinado@dlr.de</font></a><font size=2 face="Calibri">]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 25, 2014 5:36 AM<b><br>
To:</b> Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int; Scott, Keith L.<b><br>
Cc:</b> tomg@aiaa.org<b><br>
Subject:</b> AW: Quick comments: [CESG] SIS Resolution to submit Voice
and Audio Communications Red Book for processing and CESG Polling for Agency
Review (SIS-R-2014-11-003)</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri">Hi Gian Paolo,</font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri">Thank you very much for your
inputs. The DTN part was written by the DTN group, but I will check it
with them.</font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri">Thanks also for all the
others recommendations, I will fix/check all of them.</font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri">Best Regards</font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri">Osvaldo</font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Tahoma"><b>Von:</b> </font><a href=mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int><font size=2 color=blue face="Tahoma"><u>Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Tahoma">
[</font><a href=mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int><font size=2 color=blue face="Tahoma"><u>mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Tahoma">]
<b><br>
Gesendet:</b> Montag, 24. November 2014 17:30<b><br>
An:</b> Scott, Keith L.; Peinado, Osvaldo Luis<b><br>
Cc:</b> Tom Gannett<b><br>
Betreff:</b> Quick comments: [CESG] SIS Resolution to submit Voice and
Audio Communications Red Book for processing and CESG Polling for Agency
Review (SIS-R-2014-11-003)</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Keith, Osvaldo <br>
here below a few preliminary quick comments.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
You may want to consider them before CESG poll starts.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
Regards</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> <br>
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
Gian Paolo</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> <br>
<br>
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
In section 2.1 I would reword this sentence from:</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
<br>
CFDP supports two classes. Each of the classes can be supported over the
DTN Bundle Protocol (reference [19]) and DTN Licklider Transport Protocol
(LTP) (reference [18]). </font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
To e.g.:</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> <br>
CFDP supports two classes. Each of the classes can be supported over the
DTN Bundle Protocol (reference [19]). DTN may eventually operate over the
Licklider Transport Protocol (LTP) (reference [18]). </font>
<br><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Wingdings">Ø </font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri">I
think the question here is how we think voice might be layered (specifically,
if we think voice might run DIRECTLY over LTP or not). From the fact
that CFDP seems to be the important bit here, we might say something like:</font>
<br><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Wingdings">§ </font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri">CFDP
supports the following classes, both of which can be supported by the DTN
Bundle Protocol (reference [19]).</font>
<br><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Wingdings">Ø </font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri">And
leave it to the mission designer to decide exactly what CFDP runs over
(BP, Encapsulation, …)</font>
<br><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
Is the terminology <</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">DTN Bundle
Protocol </font><font size=2 face="Arial">>, <</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">DTN
Licklider Transport Protocol</font><font size=2 face="Arial">> correct?</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<br><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Wingdings">Ø </font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri">I
hadn’t really thought about it too much, but I think this terminology
is pretty good (though the reference to LTP was removed in my suggested
text above). DTN is the label for ‘the stack’ and Bundle Protocol
identifies the particular protocol. We could say something like ‘Bundle
Protocol for CCSDS’ (the name of the BP for CCSDS Book) but I think the
context, coupled with the reference, make it clear what we’re talking
about.</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
Clause 4.2.2.2.2 </font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">Advanced Orbiting
Systems (AOS) Virtual Channel Access (VCA), AOS [24] Bitstream,
and AOS [24] Insert services should be used to transmit voice and
audio data. </font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
I think that this clause should be reworded to be clearer to e.g.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
The following services of AOS [24] should be used to transmit voice and
audio data: Virtual Channell Access (VCA), Bitstream, and Insert.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<br><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Wingdings">Ø </font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri">I
might have said something like</font>
<br><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Courier New">o </font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri">Voice
and audio data should be transferred using </font><font size=4 color=red face="Calibri">(one
or more of ???) </font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri">the following
services: Advanced Orbiting Systems (AOS, [24]) Virtual Channel Access
(VCA), AOS Bitstream Service, and AOS Insert.</font>
<br><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Courier New">o </font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri">Not
sure about ‘using one of the following’ vs. ‘using the following’ –
if we’re thinking these types of transmissions are typically single-hop
then ‘one of…’ will work. If a single voice transmission might
use multiple transmission mechanisms then ‘using the following’ (or using
one or more of the following) is probably better.</font>
<br><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
Note also that the VCA Service is also offered by Telemetry (CCSDS 132.0-B)
and Telecommand (CCSDS 232.0-B), therefore a user willing to use VCA should
not be limited to AOS.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> <br>
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
Clause 4.3.5 </font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">Files may
be transmitted by any general file transmission protocol, e.g., via CFDP
Class 1 or Class 2 (reference [17]), over CCSDS links or over DTN protocol
(references [18] and [19]). </font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
I think here reference 18 should be removed as CFDP would never interface
LTP directly.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<br><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Wingdings">Ø </font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri">Why
not? Once could do CFDP unreliable over LTP Red, for example, in
order to write a very small and simple (if non-class-1-supporting) CFDP
implementation. I don’t feel too strongly about this one way or
the other, especially since this text is in the ‘example’ clause of the
sentence and is therefore (the way I would read the document) not normative.
It might be better even to separate the example into a NOTE (NOTE:
File transfer may for example use CFDP ….) We also don’t have a
CFDP over LTP UT layer spec.</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
Clause 4.5.5 </font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">Frequencies
and channelization: If a direct space link to spacecraft is available or
if the MCC communicates using a space link to other MCC, the CCSDS standard
frequency (reference [20][21][22]) should be used. <br>
The 3 references mentioned there are the 3 books for Proximity-1. Only
[20] addresses the physical layer for "proximity space-to-space links".
Since MCC is mentioned I guess that Proximity-1 is not the only candidate.
<br>
Please clarify which scenarios are really addressed by this clause and
coordinate with Enrico Vassalo (SLS-RFM chair) for the applicable standards.
<br>
Moreover, is it correct to address frequencies in normative clause without
identifying the complete stack from the voice/audio application down to
the physical layer? <br>
Note that if you want to consider the complete stack there are at least
Encapsulation Service, TM, TC, AOS to be cited. <br>
<br>
In 5.1 the sentence <In cases involving landers, rovers, orbiting constellations,
and orbiting relays, proximity links should be considered (references [20],
[21], [22].) > is correct but how is this visible to the voice/audio
application that is recommended to run over IPoC, DTN or File Xfer? Can
the voice/audio application be really aware of the details of the layers
immediately below those of the expected services (i.e. IPoC, DTN, CFDP,
etc.)? <br>
<br>
<br>
</font><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial"><br>
From: </font><font size=1 face="Arial">"Scott,
Keith L." <</font><a href=mailto:kscott@mitre.org><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>kscott@mitre.org</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial"><br>
To: </font><font size=1 face="Arial">"</font><a href=mailto:Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">"
<</font><a href=mailto:Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">>,
"Thomas Gannett" <</font><a href=mailto:tomg@aiaa.org><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>tomg@aiaa.org</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">>,
</font><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial"><br>
Cc: </font><font size=1 face="Arial">"</font><a href="mailto:sis-mia@mailman.ccsds.org"><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>sis-mia@mailman.ccsds.org</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">"
<</font><a href="mailto:sis-mia@mailman.ccsds.org"><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>sis-mia@mailman.ccsds.org</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">>,
"CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG
Exec \(</font><a href=mailto:cesg@mailman.ccsds.org/><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>cesg@mailman.ccsds.org\</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">)"
<</font><a href=mailto:cesg@mailman.ccsds.org><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>cesg@mailman.ccsds.org</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">>,
"Osvaldo Peinado \(</font><a href=mailto:osvaldo.peinado@dlr.de/><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>osvaldo.peinado@dlr.de\</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">)"
<</font><a href=mailto:osvaldo.peinado@dlr.de><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>osvaldo.peinado@dlr.de</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial"><br>
Date: </font><font size=1 face="Arial">24/11/2014
14:54</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial"><br>
Subject: </font><font size=1 face="Arial">[CESG]
SIS Resolution to submit Voice and Audio Communications Red Book for processing
and CESG Polling for Agency Review (SIS-R-2014-11-003)</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial"><br>
Sent by: </font><a href="mailto:cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<div align=center>
<hr noshade></div>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
</font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
CCSDS Secretariat,</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
The SIS Area, on the recommendation of the Voice and Audio Communications
Working Group, resolves (via SIS resolution SIS-R-2014-11-003) to submit
the attached Red Book for document processing and CESG polling to release
the document for agency review.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
I believe that Cynthia Sachs-Bustos should have the sources for the drawing
in the book. If not then we can provide them.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
Very respectfully,</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
--keith</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Calibri"><b><br>
Dr. Keith Scott</b>
Office: +1.703.983.6547</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Calibri"><br>
Chief Engineer, J86A
Fax:
+1.703.983.7142</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Calibri"><br>
Communications Network Engineering & Analysis Email: </font><a href=mailto:kscott@mitre.org><font size=1 color=blue face="Calibri"><u>kscott@mitre.org</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href=http://www.mitre.org/><font size=1 color=#0082bf face="Calibri"><u>The
MITRE Corporation</u></font></a><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Calibri">
M/S H300</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Calibri"><br>
7515 Colshire Drive</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Calibri"><br>
McLean, VA 22102</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Calibri"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Calibri"><br>
Area Director,</font><font size=1 color=#37605e face="Calibri"> </font><a href=http://www.ccsds.org/><font size=1 color=#0082bf face="Calibri"><u>CCSDS</u></font></a><font size=1 color=#37605e face="Calibri">
</font><a href=http://cwe.ccsds.org/sis/default.aspx><font size=1 color=#0082bf face="Calibri"><u>Space
Internetworking Services</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=1 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Calibri"><br>
MITRE self-signs its own certificates. Information about the MITRE
PKI Certificate Chain is available from </font><a href=http://www.mitre.org/tech/mii/pki/><font size=1 color=#0082bf face="Calibri"><u>http://www.mitre.org/tech/mii/pki/</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=4 color=#37605e face="Calibri"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="Calibri"><b><br>
From:</b> Keith Scott [</font><a href=mailto:keithlscott@gmail.com><font size=2 color=blue face="Calibri"><u>mailto:keithlscott@gmail.com</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Calibri">]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 19, 2014 6:44 PM<b><br>
To:</b> Scott, Keith L.<b><br>
Subject:</b> Fwd: Voice and audio communication book for CESG review</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: <</font><a href=mailto:osvaldo.peinado@dlr.de><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>osvaldo.peinado@dlr.de</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">><br>
Date: Nov 19, 2014 5:29 AM<br>
Subject: Voice and audio communication book for CESG review<br>
To: <</font><a href=mailto:tomg@aiaa.org><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>tomg@aiaa.org</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">><br>
Cc: <</font><a href=mailto:aid@mcc.rsa.ru><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>aid@mcc.rsa.ru</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">>,
<</font><a href=mailto:keithlscott@gmail.com><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>keithlscott@gmail.com</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">>,
<</font><a href="mailto:cynthia@sachs-bustos.com"><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><u>cynthia@sachs-bustos.com</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">><br>
<br>
Hi Tom <br>
As we talk with Keith, here is the book ready for your magic. <br>
We have several review cycles with Cynthia before the meeting in London
and I got today all the final inputs from the WG member. <br>
Thanks a lot for your support <br>
Best Regards <br>
Osvaldo <br>
<br>
<br>
</font><font size=3 face="Arial"><b><br>
Dr. Osvaldo Peinado</b></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=3 face="Arial"><br>
Ground Operations Manager</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=3 face="Arial"><br>
German Space Operations Center (GSOC)<br>
Tel: </font><a href=tel:%2B49%208153%2028%203010 target=_blank><font size=3 color=blue face="Arial"><u>+49
8153 28 3010</u></font></a><font size=3 face="Arial"><br>
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