<html><head></head><body><div class="ydp8a4ddc92yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42);">Hey all, I don't see the emails (such as the below) reaching the mail list or the ccsds archive of them, so I'm forwarding/re-sending the below again</span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42);">Rob</span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42);"> </span></div><div><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42);">---- Forwarded Message -----</span><br></div></div></div><div id="ydp2c5bc3bayahoo_quoted_0825999518" class="ydp2c5bc3bayahoo_quoted"><div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div><b>From:</b> Robert Rovetto via SEA-SA <sea-sa@mailman.ccsds.org></div><div><b>To:</b> SEA-SA <sea-sa@mailman.ccsds.org></div><div><b>Cc:</b> Robert Rovetto <rrovetto@terpalum.umd.edu></div><div><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 06:22:16 PM GMT+11</div><div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Sea-sa] Ask the question "define ontology in computer science", and ...</div><div><br></div>
<div><div id="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407"><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;" class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yahoo-style-wrap"><div id="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321"><div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;" class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yahoo-style-wrap"><div id="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578"><div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;" class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydpc76ec583yahoo-style-wrap"><div dir="ltr">Hi all, </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I did not receive Peter's email on the sea-sa list, was not cc'd, and I don't see it on the archives yet, so I'll reply to the forwarded message.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Below is some Input (2), and context (1) for any future discussion on it in or outside of group meetings. <br></div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">FYI: I had two presentations this week in an vocabulary event. Others in CCSDS may have attended, but contact me separately details.</div></div><div dir="ltr"> </div><div dir="ltr"><i>(1) Context</i>: To reiterate, anyone is free to reach out to me for ontology topics or collaborations. <span><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Since at least 2020 on the e-list and in meetings since I've expressed that. </span></span></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Again--the topic has been a focus area with special-interest for space (https://purl.org/space-ontology). As a focus area, I can contribute modest knowledge and perspectives. As a continuing student and relatively-young member of the group, collaborations are needed (contact me for connecting with current supervisor to potentially explore that). </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><i>(2) Input on Peters email</i>...</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">A) <span><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">It's likely that I've met, know, or interacted with the author(s) of a number of relevant definitions of the term, or i've otherwise ruminated on them.</span></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr">B) My living catalog of 'ontology' definitions: <a href="https://purl.org//rrovetto/CatalogOntologyDefinitions" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://purl.org//rrovetto/CatalogOntologyDefinitions</a></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">C) A diagram of an overview of ontology: <a href="https://github.com/rrovetto/Ontology-Development-Guidelines/blob/master/TheOntologyLandscape.md" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://github.com/rrovetto/Ontology-Development-Guidelines/blob/master/TheOntologyLandscape.md</a> </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">D) We'd be well-served by focusing on the RASDS project goals, use-cases, and tools/tech used as to whether to include and what a definition of 'conceptual model' or 'ontology' may be. Why? </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">There are reasons for and against whether even using the word 'ontology' and whether using a particular sense of it for computer science. I can provide both if desired. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><i>A meta-level consideration I've mentioned here and elsewhere is:</i> whether a distinction needs to be made at all between these models (conceptual model vs. ontology vs. ...). It may not be needed.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">It may very well be that based on the project's goals/use-cases/tools/capabilities it's not applicable according to a particular sense. </div><div dir="ltr">A tool-specific sense of 'ontology' or 'conceptual-model' in which a particular computational language is used but which RASDSS does not or would not, would mean not using. And some circles with particularlyl narrow senses of it, may define it relative to a particular language or tool (imho, a mistake). </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Another consideration is not formally asserting it as a distinct type of model/system, but rather as an activity or process the products/output of which we may then call 'conceptual model' or some other term. I can describe what that can look like as well, if desired. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">D) Bottom-line: if distinctions are made, then we should be precise and clearly show what they are, avoiding making them trivial or for the sake of using a perceived trending word or topic. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Robert Rovetto</div><div dir="ltr">--</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div></div><div id="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyahoo_quoted_9970903493" class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyahoo_quoted"><div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;"><div><div id="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979"><div dir="ltr"><div class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <strong class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979gmail_sendername">Shames, Peter M (US 312B)</strong> <span><<a href="mailto:peter.m.shames@jpl.nasa.gov" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">peter.m.shames@jpl.nasa.gov</a>></span><br>Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:12 AM<br>Subject: Ask the question "define ontology in computer science", and ...<br>To: Frederick Slane <<a href="mailto:freds@spacestandards.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">freds@spacestandards.org</a>>, Ramon Krosley <<a href="mailto:r.krosley@andropogon.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">r.krosley@andropogon.org</a>>, Radulescu, Costin (US 9300) <<a href="mailto:cradule@jpl.nasa.gov" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">cradule@jpl.nasa.gov</a>>, Christian Stangl <<a href="mailto:christian.sta@googlemail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">christian.sta@googlemail.com</a>>, Cheng, Shelbun K (US 312H) <<a href="mailto:shelbun.k.cheng@jpl.nasa.gov" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">shelbun.k.cheng@jpl.nasa.gov</a>>, Thompson, Paul B <<a href="mailto:PBTHOMPSON@qinetiq.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">PBTHOMPSON@qinetiq.com</a>>, he xiongwen <<a href="mailto:hexw501@hotmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">hexw501@hotmail.com</a>><br>Cc: SEA-SA <<a href="mailto:sea-sa@mailman.ccsds.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">sea-sa@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br></div><br><br><div class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979msg2161452005741930988">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979m_2161452005741930988WordSection1">
<p class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979MsoNormal">Dear RASDS++ colleagues,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979MsoNormal">I thought this was amusing and informative. I was poking about on the web to find good definitions for “ontology”, “conceptual model”, and related terms that we might want to include in the RASDS++ update. So I searched for "define ontology
in computer science". What came up was a definition that seemed workable, and also some related images that were provided.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979MsoNormal">See the attached screen shot. The first image is our existing RASDS ontology diagram, as published in an earlier paper of mine. Our 15 seconds of fame.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979MsoNormal">Cheers, Peter<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div></div>
</div>
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>SEA-SA mailing list<br><a href="mailto:SEA-SA@mailman.ccsds.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">SEA-SA@mailman.ccsds.org</a><br><a href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sea-sa" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sea-sa</a><br></div>
</div>
</div><div id="ydp2c5bc3bayahoo_quoted_0825999518" class="ydp2c5bc3bayahoo_quoted"><div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div><b>From:</b> Robert Rovetto via SEA-SA <sea-sa@mailman.ccsds.org></div><div><b>To:</b> SEA-SA <sea-sa@mailman.ccsds.org></div><div><b>Cc:</b> Robert Rovetto <rrovetto@terpalum.umd.edu></div><div><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 06:22:16 PM GMT+11</div><div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Sea-sa] Ask the question "define ontology in computer science", and ...</div><div><br></div>
<div><div id="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407"><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;" class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yahoo-style-wrap"><div id="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321"><div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;" class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yahoo-style-wrap"><div id="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578"><div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;" class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydpc76ec583yahoo-style-wrap"><div dir="ltr">Hi all, </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I did not receive Peter's email on the sea-sa list, was not cc'd, and I don't see it on the archives yet, so I'll reply to the forwarded message.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Below is some Input (2), and context (1) for any future discussion on it in or outside of group meetings. <br></div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">FYI: I had two presentations this week in an vocabulary event. Others in CCSDS may have attended, but contact me separately details.</div></div><div dir="ltr"> </div><div dir="ltr"><i>(1) Context</i>: To reiterate, anyone is free to reach out to me for ontology topics or collaborations. <span><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Since at least 2020 on the e-list and in meetings since I've expressed that. </span></span></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Again--the topic has been a focus area with special-interest for space (https://purl.org/space-ontology). As a focus area, I can contribute modest knowledge and perspectives. As a continuing student and relatively-young member of the group, collaborations are needed (contact me for connecting with current supervisor to potentially explore that). </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><i>(2) Input on Peters email</i>...</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">A) <span><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">It's likely that I've met, know, or interacted with the author(s) of a number of relevant definitions of the term, or i've otherwise ruminated on them.</span></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr">B) My living catalog of 'ontology' definitions: <a href="https://purl.org//rrovetto/CatalogOntologyDefinitions" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://purl.org//rrovetto/CatalogOntologyDefinitions</a></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">C) A diagram of an overview of ontology: <a href="https://github.com/rrovetto/Ontology-Development-Guidelines/blob/master/TheOntologyLandscape.md" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://github.com/rrovetto/Ontology-Development-Guidelines/blob/master/TheOntologyLandscape.md</a> </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">D) We'd be well-served by focusing on the RASDS project goals, use-cases, and tools/tech used as to whether to include and what a definition of 'conceptual model' or 'ontology' may be. Why? </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">There are reasons for and against whether even using the word 'ontology' and whether using a particular sense of it for computer science. I can provide both if desired. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><i>A meta-level consideration I've mentioned here and elsewhere is:</i> whether a distinction needs to be made at all between these models (conceptual model vs. ontology vs. ...). It may not be needed.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">It may very well be that based on the project's goals/use-cases/tools/capabilities it's not applicable according to a particular sense. </div><div dir="ltr">A tool-specific sense of 'ontology' or 'conceptual-model' in which a particular computational language is used but which RASDSS does not or would not, would mean not using. And some circles with particularlyl narrow senses of it, may define it relative to a particular language or tool (imho, a mistake). </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Another consideration is not formally asserting it as a distinct type of model/system, but rather as an activity or process the products/output of which we may then call 'conceptual model' or some other term. I can describe what that can look like as well, if desired. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">D) Bottom-line: if distinctions are made, then we should be precise and clearly show what they are, avoiding making them trivial or for the sake of using a perceived trending word or topic. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Robert Rovetto</div><div dir="ltr">--</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div></div><div id="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyahoo_quoted_9970903493" class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyahoo_quoted"><div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;"><div><div id="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979"><div dir="ltr"><div class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <strong class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979gmail_sendername">Shames, Peter M (US 312B)</strong> <span><<a href="mailto:peter.m.shames@jpl.nasa.gov" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">peter.m.shames@jpl.nasa.gov</a>></span><br>Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 11:12 AM<br>Subject: Ask the question "define ontology in computer science", and ...<br>To: Frederick Slane <<a href="mailto:freds@spacestandards.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">freds@spacestandards.org</a>>, Ramon Krosley <<a href="mailto:r.krosley@andropogon.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">r.krosley@andropogon.org</a>>, Radulescu, Costin (US 9300) <<a href="mailto:cradule@jpl.nasa.gov" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">cradule@jpl.nasa.gov</a>>, Christian Stangl <<a href="mailto:christian.sta@googlemail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">christian.sta@googlemail.com</a>>, Cheng, Shelbun K (US 312H) <<a href="mailto:shelbun.k.cheng@jpl.nasa.gov" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">shelbun.k.cheng@jpl.nasa.gov</a>>, Thompson, Paul B <<a href="mailto:PBTHOMPSON@qinetiq.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">PBTHOMPSON@qinetiq.com</a>>, he xiongwen <<a href="mailto:hexw501@hotmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">hexw501@hotmail.com</a>><br>Cc: SEA-SA <<a href="mailto:sea-sa@mailman.ccsds.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">sea-sa@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br></div><br><br><div class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979msg2161452005741930988">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979m_2161452005741930988WordSection1">
<p class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979MsoNormal">Dear RASDS++ colleagues,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979MsoNormal">I thought this was amusing and informative. I was poking about on the web to find good definitions for “ontology”, “conceptual model”, and related terms that we might want to include in the RASDS++ update. So I searched for "define ontology
in computer science". What came up was a definition that seemed workable, and also some related images that were provided.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979MsoNormal">See the attached screen shot. The first image is our existing RASDS ontology diagram, as published in an earlier paper of mine. Our 15 seconds of fame.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979MsoNormal">Cheers, Peter<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="ydp2c5bc3bayiv5890760407ydpf172cf6yiv9472090321ydp5dfc9e8yiv3700751578ydp6ebc143eyiv7984858979MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div></div>
</div>
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>SEA-SA mailing list<br><a href="mailto:SEA-SA@mailman.ccsds.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">SEA-SA@mailman.ccsds.org</a><br><a href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sea-sa" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sea-sa</a><br></div>
</div>
</div></body></html>