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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Yes, I agree with David.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>The only concern is for users is to determine what data/info is available and for archives to make clear the source of the data as either from AIP or from other archive sources.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Hope, Health, and Peace,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>-JOhn <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> MOIMS-DAI <moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>david@giaretta.org<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 17, 2021 3:16 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Moims-dai] Interoperability, Data, Information, and the DC<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Hi Mike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>My email of 12<sup>th</sup> Jan was about the definition of interoperability, and if I raised “data” vs “information” it was just to illustrate some different possibilities of defining interoperability. I make it clear at the end what my preference is.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>But to answer your email I think it is easier if we avoid mixing up<o:p></o:p></span></p><ol style='margin-top:0in' start=1 type=a><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo3'><span lang=EN-GB>what the OAIS-IF makes possible and<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo3'><span lang=EN-GB>what any particular archive can provide<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>If there is lots and lots of Representation Information then OAIS-IF makes it possible for people to do lots and lots - great.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Of course if a source of information does not have the Representation Information that an information consumer would like then that is tough – OAIS-IF cannot magic things out of thin air. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>In terms of talking about data vs information, clearly OAIS makes a distinction. However, in terms of OAIS-IF it surely will be less confusing, in terms of design and implementation to simply allow the possibility (as mentioned above) that there may not be as much Rep.Info. as the information consumer may want. Of course where one needs to get the bits (the Data Object) then OAIS-IF must allow this.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Then we don’t really have to worry about the Designated Community (DC) in the OAIS-IF design because OAIS would guarantee that a conformant archive has enough Rep.Info. for the DC of that piece of information, but not for anyone/anything else.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>As you can see, my preference is to be aware of the complexities but have a “get out of jail” card (i.e. recognise that there is the possibility that there may not be enough Rep.Info.) so that we can mostly ignore those complexities when we design OAIS-IF. This makes the design much simpler. I am sure that if one thinks it through then it will all work fine. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Surely this is what good design/modelling should be about i.e. do not model every possible detail but do model enough detail. “Enough” is a matter of judgement. I hope it is clear what my judgement is.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>..David<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> MOIMS-DAI <<a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:kearneysolutions@gmail.com">kearneysolutions@gmail.com</a><br><b>Sent:</b> 17 January 2021 19:36<br><b>To:</b> 'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <<a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> [Moims-dai] Interoperability, Data, Information, and the DC<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>(Changed subject line from the thread below)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>There weren’t any other responses to David’s note below, and we did touch on data vs. information in the last telecon, but I don’t think we resolved anything. Correct me if I’m wrong on that. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I think that the discussion below would benefit form addition of the “Designated Community”. Moreover, I think what we can promise from OAIS-IF is…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>For the Designated Community, an OAIS-IF archive provides interoperability of information. (OAIS RM requires that the designated community can understand the content of DIPs). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>For those outside the designated community, OAIS-IF only guarantees interoperability of data. OAIS-IF allows access and retrieval of data, but the OAIS-RM compliant archive doesn’t guarantee it has the Representation Information that can be interpreted by those outside the designated community. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>In the latter case, if an OAIS RM compliant archive wants to go the extra mile and provide Representation Information that even (*some?*) consumers from outside the Designated Community can understand, then they are welcome to do that. But they are not required. Therefore interoperability of information is provided for the Designated Community and perhaps others. But it may be that only interoperability of data is provided outside the Designated Community. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Does that ring a bell? (good or bad?) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#002060'> -=- Mike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Mike Kearney</span><span style='color:#002060'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#002060'>Huntsville, Alabama, USA <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> MOIMS-DAI <<a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:david@giaretta.org">david@giaretta.org</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 12, 2021 5:58 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <<a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Moims-dai] Reminder of Skype call tomorrow<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Hi John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>One immediate, absolutely fundamental, question arises from your comments, for example your first comment:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><i><span lang=EN-GB>Although information exchange rather than data exchange is an admirable goal, I thought main purpose of OAIS-IF was interoperability. I think we should be aiming for interoperability whether information or data is exchanged.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>The question is “What is interoperability?”. We need to agree on that otherwise we are talking at cross-purposes.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><a href="http://interoperability-definition.info/en/">http://interoperability-definition.info/en/</a> has a definition:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><i><span lang=EN-GB>Interoperability is a characteristic of a product or system, whose interfaces are completely understood, to work with other products or systems, present or future, in either implementation or access, without any restrictions.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>My understanding was that to have interoperability of information from different domains, say Solar studies and Meteorology, one needed to be able to “combine” (“work with”) the information from those domains e.g. plot the heat output from the Sun against weather patterns to see if Global Warming is caused by the Sun rather than Man. This requires more than just getting the data – which one can probably do already pretty easily. My belief was that this is why we are talking about an <b>OAIS</b>-IF – because one of the OAIS fundamental drivers is about understandability and usability.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Maybe some would think that interoperability is just finding relevant information e.g. where are is Solar energy output data? Well there are lots of things that exist already e.g. Google.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Maybe some would think that interoperability is just getting the data from multiple domains together. Well again that is pretty easy right now. Besides which isn’t the fundamental point in OAIS that we need more than the Data Object?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>My question is “What does an <b>OAIS</b>-IF need to do?” in other words , what is the link to OAIS? Since we said this was not about the internals of the archives, OAIS-IF is not about the details of preservation, except when one os transferring (copies of) AIPs to another archive as part of the preservation strategy. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>To my mind the answer is that it has to deal with understandability/usability of the information which is encoded in data, together with evidence about Authenticity. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Perhaps we can discuss this today.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>..David<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> MOIMS-DAI <<a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:garrett@his.com">garrett@his.com</a><br><b>Sent:</b> 12 January 2021 02:40<br><b>To:</b> 'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <<a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Moims-dai] Reminder of Skype call tomorrow<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Great start.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I’ve added a number of comments to help move it forward.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Hope, Health, and Peace,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>-JOhn<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> MOIMS-DAI <<a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:david@giaretta.org">david@giaretta.org</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 11, 2021 2:57 PM<br><b>To:</b> MOIMS-DAI List <<a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> [Moims-dai] Reminder of Skype call tomorrow<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Meeting: 10:00 Tuesday (Washington DC time), 1500 UK time, 1600 Paris time<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>If you do not receive a notification from Skype then please join it by clicking the link:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-GB><a href="https://join.skype.com/ykyu5SIPhSnD"><span lang=EN-US>https://join.skype.com/ykyu5SIPhSnD</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>*Don't have Skype yet? Download it before you join <span lang=EN-GB><a href="https://www.skype.com"><span lang=EN-US>https://www.skype.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Draft agenda:<o:p></o:p></span></p><ol style='margin-top:0in' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo6'><span lang=EN-GB>OAIS-IF<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><ol style='margin-top:0in' start=1 type=a><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:.25in;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo9'><span lang=EN-GB>Updated Draft Green Book <a href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/lf9hig3j9646jg6/OAIS-IF%20Rationale%20Scenarios%20and%20Requirements-20210107.docx?dl=0">https://www.dropbox.com/s/lf9hig3j9646jg6/OAIS-IF%20Rationale%20Scenarios%20and%20Requirements-20210107.docx?dl=0</a><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>..David<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>