<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">David,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I certainly understand your view, but you are ignoring the understanding that OAIS provides when it assigns Content Information to be the Information that is provided by the Producer who wants it to be available to others over the Long Term and thus submits it to an Archive. Instead you have adopted the view that all information within the Archive that is associated with a Producer provided Content Information should get the same treatment as that provided for the Content Information, which leads to your recursive view. Your semantic approach is to refer to this as ‘preserve’, by which you mean ‘treat it as though it were Content Information’. Then you say the Archive needs to ‘preserve’ Provenance, or Context, Rep Info, etc. and thus it should ‘get the full treatment’. But we have not said that this is the definition of ‘preserve’, nor have we said that all the information types need to have the same level of effort and thus have all the associated information objects. They clearly don’t get the same level of effort as a practical matter in any Archive. So I find your approach fails on two levels: 1) it would make Content Information ambiguous in any discussion, and 2) it implies all the information objects should get the same level of effort which is impossible.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">For months I have tried to make the above points clear in different ways, both privately and publicly. I’d rather not discuss this any further but your proposed last minute change prompted my response.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Cheers-</div><div class="">Don</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Apr 2, 2019, at 5:58 PM, david <<a href="mailto:david@giaretta.org" class="">david@giaretta.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class=""><div class=""><div class="">As soon as one remembers that, if one is preserving the RepInfo, then it can be viewed as an example of Content Info, and all the concepts apply. In particular the CDO, in this case the DO of the RepInfo, should have PDI.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">..David</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div id="composer_signature" class=""><div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757" dir="auto" class="">Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.</div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-size: 100%;" class=""><!-- originalMessage --><div class="">-------- Original message --------</div><div class="">From: Mark Conrad <<a href="mailto:mark.conrad@nara.gov" class="">mark.conrad@nara.gov</a>> </div><div class="">Date: 02/04/2019 22:35 (GMT+00:00) </div><div class="">To: MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability <<a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org" class="">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> </div><div class="">Subject: Re: [Moims-dai] FW: CDO text </div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div dir="ltr" class="">Before the change you had to provide PDI for the Content Data Object and the Representation Information. Now you only have to provide PDI for the CDO. How is that better? more complete?<div class=""><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">Mark Conrad<br class="">NARA Information Services</div>
<div class="">Systems Engineering Division (IT)<br class="">The National Archives and Records Administration<br class="">Erma Ora Byrd
Conference and Learning Center<br class="">Building 494, Room 225<br class="">610 State Route
956<br class="">Rocket Center, WV 26726<br class=""><br class="">Phone: 304-726-7820<br class="">Fax:
304-726-7802<br class="">Email: <a href="mailto:mark.conrad@nara.gov" target="_blank" class="">mark.conrad@nara.gov</a> <br class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br class=""></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 2, 2019 at 5:22 PM david <<a href="mailto:david@giaretta.org" class="">david@giaretta.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=""><div class="">Not the way I, and others, read the changes.</div><div class="">David</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div id="gmail-m_8290104464136462765composer_signature" class=""><div style="font-size:85%;color:rgb(87,87,87)" dir="auto" class="">Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.</div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-size: 100%;" class=""><div class="">-------- Original message --------</div><div class="">From: Mark Conrad <<a href="mailto:mark.conrad@nara.gov" target="_blank" class="">mark.conrad@nara.gov</a>> </div><div class="">Date: 02/04/2019 22:17 (GMT+00:00) </div><div class="">To: MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability <<a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank" class="">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> </div><div class="">Subject: Re: [Moims-dai] FW: CDO text </div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div dir="ltr" class="">"
As I pointed out in the Skype call, surely the Archive does indeed need to preserve things like Fixity Information, otherwise how could the Archive provide evidence that the CDO has not changed from what the Producer provided or to what the CDO may be Transformed into at some point."<div class="">-Agree</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">" Without the change it is possible to think that OAIS has nothing clear to say about preserving such things."</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-Disagree. The suggested change to have PDI (including Fixity) apply only to the CDO rather than all of the Content Information actually makes it less clear about what PDI (including Fixity) should be preserved. The change requires less PDI rather than more to be preserved.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> <br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail-m_8290104464136462765gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">Mark Conrad<br class="">NARA Information Services</div>
<div class="">Systems Engineering Division (IT)<br class="">The National Archives and Records Administration<br class="">Erma Ora Byrd
Conference and Learning Center<br class="">Building 494, Room 225<br class="">610 State Route
956<br class="">Rocket Center, WV 26726<br class=""><br class="">Phone: 304-726-7820<br class="">Fax:
304-726-7802<br class="">Email: <a href="mailto:mark.conrad@nara.gov" target="_blank" class="">mark.conrad@nara.gov</a> <br class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br class=""></div></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 2, 2019 at 4:57 PM David Giaretta <<a href="mailto:david@giaretta.org" target="_blank" class="">david@giaretta.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-GB" class=""><div class="gmail-m_8290104464136462765gmail-m_-7125781441146979417WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Hi Don<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Without wanting to open up the extremely voluminous email exchange that we had last year off-list, I cannot resist responding to your last paragraph, which you write as if the aim is bad!<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">I, and others, want to make the change so that it becomes extremely clear how an Archive should preserve, for example, Fixity Information, if the Archive chooses to preserve it. As I pointed out in the Skype call, surely the Archive does indeed need to preserve things like Fixity Information, otherwise how could the Archive provide evidence that the CDO has not changed from what the Producer provided or to what the CDO may be Transformed into at some point. Without the change it is possible to think that OAIS has nothing clear to say about preserving such things. All pretty useful things.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Regards<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">..David<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><div class=""><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" class=""> MOIMS-DAI <<a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank" class="">moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> <b class="">On Behalf Of </b>D or C Sawyer<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> 02 April 2019 19:47<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> MOIMS DAI List <<a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank" class="">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [Moims-dai] FW: CDO text<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Hi David,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">There is no valid reason to change the Content Information definition from ‘<span style="color:rgb(255,38,0)" class="">the original target of preservation’</span> to ‘<span style="color:rgb(255,38,0)" class="">a target of preservation</span>’. This has been there from the beginning to make clear it is referring to the original information provided by the Producer and not just any information within the Archive. This is important to ensure that when people are discussing preservation within an OAIS context, everyone understands this is the information originally provided by the Producer. <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Of course we understand why you want to make this change because you still want to move Content Information to being ANY information in the Archive so you can claim the whole process is recursive by definition ‘and been there from the beginning'. This would be a radical, ambiguity enhancing, change to the long standing common understanding of the OAIS information and functional modeling. For these reasons this proposed change should be thoroughly rejected by the group.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Cheers-<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Don<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><br class=""><br class=""><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">On Apr 2, 2019, at 10:06 AM, David Giaretta <<a href="mailto:david@giaretta.org" target="_blank" class="">david@giaretta.org</a>> wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm" class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">From:</span></b><span class="gmail-m_8290104464136462765gmail-m_-7125781441146979417apple-converted-space"><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" class="">David Giaretta <<a href="mailto:david@giaretta.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:rgb(149,79,114)" class="">david@giaretta.org</span></a>><span class="gmail-m_8290104464136462765gmail-m_-7125781441146979417apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="gmail-m_8290104464136462765gmail-m_-7125781441146979417apple-converted-space"> </span>02 April 2019 13:12<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="gmail-m_8290104464136462765gmail-m_-7125781441146979417apple-converted-space"> </span>'Mark Conrad' <<a href="mailto:mark.conrad@nara.gov" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:rgb(149,79,114)" class="">mark.conrad@nara.gov</span></a>>; 'John Garrett' <<a href="mailto:garrett@his.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:rgb(149,79,114)" class="">garrett@his.com</span></a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="gmail-m_8290104464136462765gmail-m_-7125781441146979417apple-converted-space"> </span>CDO text</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">My suggestions for the additional text:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Change in current draft from:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div style="margin-left:18pt" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class="">Preservation Description Information (PDI</b>): The<span class="gmail-m_8290104464136462765gmail-m_-7125781441146979417apple-converted-space"><b class=""> </b></span>information, which along with Representation Information, is necessary for adequate preservation of the Content Data Object and which can be categorized as Provenance Information, Context Information, Reference Information, Fixity Information, and Access Rights Information.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div style="margin-left:36pt" class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Note: Defining PDI (as well as its components - Provenance Information, Context Information, Reference Information, Fixity Information, and Access Rights Information) as relevant to the Content Data Object does not mean that those concerns are any less important for other data objects or at other levels, for example, it is important to apply reference, fixity, provenance, context and access rights to Representation Information, or to any other information the Archive is preserving. Definition of these terms as relevant to the Content Data Object is simply to ease discussion of these concepts at the Content Data Object level.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">To:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div style="margin-left:18pt" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class="">Preservation Description Information (PDI</b>): The<span class="gmail-m_8290104464136462765gmail-m_-7125781441146979417apple-converted-space"><b class=""> </b></span>information, which along with Representation Information, is necessary for adequate preservation of the Content Data Object and which can be categorized as Provenance Information, Context Information, Reference Information, Fixity Information, and Access Rights Information.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div style="margin-left:36pt" class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Note: Defining PDI (as well as its components - Provenance Information, Context Information, Reference Information, Fixity Information, and Access Rights Information) as relevant to the Content Data Object does not mean that those concerns are any less important for other data objects or at other levels, for example, it is important to apply reference, fixity, provenance, context and access rights to Representation Information, or to any other information the Archive is preserving.<span class="gmail-m_8290104464136462765gmail-m_-7125781441146979417apple-converted-space"> </span><s class=""><span style="color:red" class="">Definition of these terms as relevant to the Content Data Object is simply to ease discussion of these concepts at the Content Data Object level.</span></s><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">I suggest deleting the last sentence because it does not make sense to me.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Change<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div style="margin-left:36pt" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class="">Content Information</b>:<span class="gmail-m_8290104464136462765gmail-m_-7125781441146979417apple-converted-space"><b class=""> </b></span><span style="letter-spacing:-0.2pt" class="">A set of information that is the original target of preservation. It is an Information Object composed of its Content Data Object and its Representation Information.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">To<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div style="margin-left:36pt" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class="">Content Information</b>:<span class="gmail-m_8290104464136462765gmail-m_-7125781441146979417apple-converted-space"><b class=""> </b></span><span style="letter-spacing:-0.2pt" class="">A set of information that is<span class="gmail-m_8290104464136462765gmail-m_-7125781441146979417apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="color:red" class="">a</span><span class="gmail-m_8290104464136462765gmail-m_-7125781441146979417apple-converted-space"> </span><s class=""><span style="color:red" class="">the original</span></s><span class="gmail-m_8290104464136462765gmail-m_-7125781441146979417apple-converted-space"><span style="color:red" class=""> </span></span>target of preservation. It is an Information Object composed of its Content Data Object and its Representation Information.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">There are a few other places the change “the original” to “a” would also be needed.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Add to the end of section 4.2.1.4 Taxonomy of Information Object Classes Used by OAIS<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div style="margin-left:36pt" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red" class="">Content Information is any Information Object which is being preserved by the Archive.<span class="gmail-m_8290104464136462765gmail-m_-7125781441146979417apple-converted-space"> </span></span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div style="margin-left:36pt" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red" class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">I don’t know an easy way to put this into the UML diagram.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Also add the end of section 4.2.1.4.1 Content Information:<span class="gmail-m_8290104464136462765gmail-m_-7125781441146979417apple-converted-space"> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div style="margin-left:36pt" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red" class="">Any Information Object being preserved by the Archive, such as Representation Information, PDI etc., may also be considered to be Content Information.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">..David<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">MOIMS-DAI mailing list<br class=""></span><a href="mailto:MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(149,79,114)" class="">MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></span><a href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai" target="_blank" class=""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(149,79,114)" class="">https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai</span></a><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">
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