<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Hi John, et al.,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div>It occurred to me that I left out the need for enhanced semantics in a few of my answers. Please see updates below:<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 28, 2018, at 10:25 AM, D or C Sawyer <<a href="mailto:Sawyer@acm.org" class="">Sawyer@acm.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class="">On Jul 28, 2018, at 3:41 AM, John Garrett <<a href="mailto:garrett@his.com" class="">garrett@his.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi Don,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><a name="_MailEndCompose" class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></a></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Good to hear from you.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I think I understand what you are saying, but if I understand correctly, I disagree with you.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">In your scenario, it seems that you did a great job detailing your implementation. However, I think I would be the audience member standing up and questioning you about your implementation that did not include any Representation Information.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I understand that you are concerned with the rigidity with which I view the OAIS RM info modeling. To me to conceptually say that a Data Object becomes an Information Object when it is interpreted by the Representation Information. You seem to be saying that a Content Data Object within an AIP can also be considered to be a Content Information object within an AIP and can be interpreted without anything else. I suppose that the Archive decides if RepInfo is needed or not.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">Yes, that is exactly what I’m saying. A hardcopy document that can be read by a person is definitely an information object, but not an Information Object as defined by OAIS. I’ve made this point in my major article. Just because OAIS defines an Information Object to have RepInfo doesn’t mean that there are not other information objects that need preservation.</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><br class="" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Some related questions I have?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I’m assuming that not needing RepInfo in the AIP is only an option for a book (physical data object). Do other types of physical data objects (e.g. a biological sample) require Representation Information in the AIP?</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">That would be up to the preservation objective associated with the physical object. The US Declaration of Independence is on display in a museum and is there for viewing. Assuming there is no translation into other languages, the preservation intent is to provide the experience of seeing the original document. No RepInfo needed.</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><br class="" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Am I right in assuming a digital Content Data Object within an AIP always requires the presence of RepInfo?</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">One could imagine a case where the object<font color="#ff2600" class="">ive</font> is to simply preserve the physical media on which the digital signal exists. Maybe it has been etched into a titanium cube as some type of historical art work and must be viewed thru a microscope to be appreciated. It would be the the media and the ability to view it that is to be preserved. Just being digital is not enough - it must be ‘encoded’ to require ‘decoding’ information (RepInfo) <font color="#ff2600" class="">AND/OR it needs enhanced semantics (RepInfo).</font></span><br class="" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">What is criteria for deciding if RepInfo is required or not?</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">If there needs to be decoding information to present the information to be experienced <font color="#ff2600" class="">or if there needs to be decoding with enhanced semantics to present the information to be understood or if there needs to be enhanced semantics for a physical object to be understood. I think that covers it.</font></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><br class="" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Actually, I was sort of surprised by you interpretation that you can create AIPs (even if for a book) without RepInfo, since you were the originator of adding the Rep Info Network (i.e. layers upon layers of Rep Info describing other Rep Info) concept into the OAIS.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">The 2 are totally separate, until a digital Rep Info network ends in a hardcopy understandable document <font color="#ff2600" class="">(for example)</font> that no longer needs RepInfo. If decoding <font color="#ff2600" class="">or additional semantic</font> information is needed to meet the preservation objectives, then that RepInfo will have to be a part of the ‘AIP implementation’. The AIP is a concept and actual implementations have to take that concept and apply it as makes sense for the preservation objectives. Seems clear to me, anyway.</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Another curiosity is that this discussion is the result of your wanting to back off the agreed change of saying that the PDI applied primarily to the CDO (i.e. Content Information that doesn’t have Rep Info to interpret it).<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">You are right about the genesis of my concern, but it is the same thing. Whether an AIP’s Content Information is composed of a physical object only OR a physical or digital object with RepInfo, there should be PDI associated with the Content Information. This is a fundamental concept associated with the preservation of information (not just Information Objects). My objection is to weakening, in the OAIS RM, the concern for PDI associated with RepInfo as the proposed change would do. Of course the CDO and the RepInfo would have different Provenance and Context and fixity in actual implementations, but the concept is not different.</div><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Another related question. Are there any parts of the PDI that are not needed in an implementation of an AIP?</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">I think that depends on the framework from which the question is being asked. I believe an implementer should attempt to ensure such information is available, but it may not be. Or it may be very limited, or the implementation may address the issue without actually having such information explicit. From an auditing perspective, one would look for a reasonable response from the Archive as to how this has been addressed. An evaluation of the answer would be subjective, of course, as much of auditing must be. My view.</div><br class="" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I look forward to discussing this more in one of our upcoming weekly telecons.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">O’k for me, but others may be tired as the distinctions are a bit subtle (but I think important). However I think I’ve finally made my views clear (or at least clearer). I can’t ask for anything more.</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><br class="" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Peace and joy,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">-JOhn<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><div class="" style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><b class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>MOIMS-DAI [<a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org" class="">mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>D or C Sawyer<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, July 26, 2018 9:44 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>MOIMS DAI List <<a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org" class="">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Moims-dai] Telecon Notes?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Dear John, David, Mark, and Steve,<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">It seems I’ve not been able to clarify my concerns regarding the rigidity with which the OAIS RM information modeling is being viewed, at least by some, in the thread below, but I believe the following scenario will highlight some differences and clarify my views.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">I’m attending a conference on preservation and I’m giving a presentation on my Archive implementation. I state that my implementation follows OAIS RM precepts and that I will be using OAIS RM terminology and concepts to describe the implementation. I describe how the implementation is addressing the high level bulleted requirements of OAIS RM Section 3. I describe my AIP implementation as consisting of a Tar file with pointers to the relevant information, including Representation Information for the Content Data Object and PDI consisting of Provenance, Context, Reference and Access Rights Information.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">I then note, as others have noted in past years, that one of the great features of the OAIS RM is that it includes both digital and physical information at the most fundamental level, the Information Object, as my Archive has both types of materials. Not only do I have a variety of digital materials, but I also have a number of historical manuscripts in hardcopy form that need preservation. In addition, a number of my digital Content Data Objects are quite old and their format information (Representation Information) is stored in hardcopy form on microfiche. I’m able to describe all this using the OAIS RM terms and concepts.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Of course my AIPs for the historical manuscripts look a bit different from those for the digital Content Data Objects. They have a pointer to a physical storage locations for each manuscript. I describe how access to these manuscripts is controlled, and how the environment of these storage areas is controlled to help reduce degradation of the manuscripts over the long term (Fixity). I also note that the Designated Community for these manuscripts is able to read and understand some, for which this is the preservation objective, without any additional supporting information, and for others they only need to be made visible to experience and no further understanding is part of the preservation objective. Therefore none of their AIPs include pointers to Representation Information. Further, none of them have pointers to Access Rights information as this does not exist. In fact, some of my digital Content Information objects do not have Access Rights information either.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">As I wind up my presentation, I feel that I’ve been able to communicate my implementation to the audience quite well and I ask for questions. Immediately a hand shoots up from the back of the room. He stands up and says “Mr. Sawyer, I think there is a problem here. You started your presentation by saying that you implemented an OAIS archive. You described your AIP implementations for the manuscripts as not having pointers to Representation Information and I understand you don’t need any. However in the OAIS RM conformance section it says for an implementation to be considered an OAIS, among other criteria that you clearly fulfill, it must support the information model of Section 2 and this model shows an AIP has Representation Information. Therefore it seems to me that some of your AIPs are not in conformance with the Section 2 AIP information model and thus your archive is not a true OAIS. I also note that you are missing some Access Rights information, although this is not mentioned explicitly in Section 2.”<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">I respond that as far as I’m concerned, I do support the Section 2 AIP information model. I’ve used all the OAIS RM concepts and implemented them in a manner that makes sense for the particular nature of the materials involved and I’ve used these concepts in communicating my implementation to this audience. I point out that the main purpose of the OAIS RM is to promote just this type of communication. Another major purpose is to highlight the types of information and their relationships to aid in long term preservation. My presentation has done that as well. That the manuscripts do not need Representation Information is an important point in carrying out their long term preservation according to their associated preservation objectives. When I read ‘support’ in Section 2, I take it to mean that I should apply the AIP information model concepts to my implementation in a manner that is logically consistent with the AIP components and their relationships. I do not take it to mean that I should apply the concepts in a way that is rigid and not consistent with the nature of the materials and is in fact extraneous to the preservation of those materials.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">I continued, saying that I believe my implementation is a quintessential example of an OAIS. Unless the OAIS RM makes clear that only a rigid implementation of all or certain features of the information modeling is needed to be called an OAIS, I will continue to call my implementation a full OAIS. However I do not expect to see this nor do I think it would be wise. Regardless, my implementation will stand as what I believe it is and that is an outstanding example of the full application of OAIS RM concepts and relationships.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Thanks for your attention.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Cheers-<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Don<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">PS I’ll respond to individual comments below, if requested, but I believe the scenario above should make my position clear and may prompt different questions/comments.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote class="" type="cite" style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">On Jul 24, 2018, at 10:06 AM, Hughes, John S (398B) <<a href="mailto:john.s.hughes@jpl.nasa.gov" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">john.s.hughes@jpl.nasa.gov</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi all,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Sorry that I have been responding more regularly on this topic but there have been so many other fun things to do.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I tend to agree with John’s view and concerns. However I will try to address the issue from a different point of view.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I believe that everyone would agree that a physical book in the context of an OAIS archive is an information object. I can accept that there is no need for Representation Information in the strict sense, i.e., information that maps the Data Object into more meaningful concepts, for example a data format.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">However definitional information is require, for example “the data object is a hardcopy book”. I have accepted Mark’s suggestion that the definitional information can be recast as representation for the purpose of maintaining the integrity of the OAIS Information Object. This is a rather useful expedient otherwise the PDS4 information model collapses. Also defining something is in some ways a mapping a thing to a more meaningful concept. However strictly speaking, defining something is the first step in providing meaning.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">So my position is that some information, call it representation information or definitional information is required for every data object (CDO).</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thanks,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Steve</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><b class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">MOIMS-DAI [</span><a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Garrett<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, July 23, 2018 10:03 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <</span><a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Moims-dai] Telecon Notes?</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi Don,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hope things are going well with you and the family. I hope you’re making progress with the renovations. David is finishing his. Time for me to start some more.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Now down to work.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I have to say that I still think that if a physical book is the CDO for an AIP then Rep Info is still required. The Rep Info may be minimal and may be as simple as saying “The CDO is a physical book and can be interpreted by simply viewing/reading it.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Since an AIP is a logical construct, if the whole repository is composed of physical books, then the implementation could be that the above statement could logically be considered as the Rep Info for all the AIPs.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I also don’t see why the made up sentence is a different meaning for Rep Info. It seems to me that the made up sentence is explaining how to make sense of the CDO as much as any other Rep Info.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Conceptually, I don’t understand how a implementation that logically does not have any Rep Info can also be considered to logically have Rep Info.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Who decides if a CDO, physical or digital, requires Rep Info if it is not always required?</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Does a physical book require Rep Info if it is in a foreign language?</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">If everyone else agrees that Rep Info is not required, we can make that change.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">But if we do mean to make that change, we certainly need to change all the figures (and any related text) that show one-to-one relationships between the CDO and Rep Info in the OAIS standard.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Peace and joy,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">-JOhn</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><b class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">MOIMS-DAI [</span><a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: purple;">mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>D or C Sawyer<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, July 22, 2018 9:28 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>MOIMS DAI List <</span><a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: purple;">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Moims-dai] Telecon Notes?</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Dear all,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">I would like to return to this point in the discussion on David’s proposal as I think David has made some valuable points that may get lost. I have not heard anyone disagree that, under some circumstances, a physical book does not need RepInfo. As an example, I believe an Archive implemented primarily for the preservation of physical books (Content Data Objects) understandable to the associated Designated Community would be fully justified in not conjuring up information, to be called RepInfo, just to meet someone’s concept of a best practice or a mandatory requirement for some type of certification. There may, or may not, eventually be a requirement for the addition of real RepInfo to such CDOs. This is all about practical implementations. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">In contrast, the OAIS RM is a conceptual model and its AIP is the key unit of information that is being preserved. The AIP is defined to include RepInfo with the CDO, forming Content Information, as this Content Information entity is of central importance to the preservation of digital information. I see no reason to alter this Content Information definition and I don’t believe anyone is proposing to do so. At the same time I have no problem recognizing that some implementations, such as that given in the Archive example above, may have an AIP whose Content Information is the CDO alone. This simply reflects local, practical, reality. The example highlights the possible differences between a concept and local reality. In my opinion, when there is good justification, such differences should not be of major concern. David’s proposal for the OAIS RM regarding implicit and explicit RepInfo is designed to acknowledge this reality. While I had some objection to the ‘implicit’ part of his proposed wordingl, I firmly support the attempt and believe some appropriate words can be found. It should not take a lot of discussion to find such words if there is agreement on the objective.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">When the OAIS RM uses the phrase ‘Representation Information’, it should mean the same concept everywhere in the document. It should not also stand for some made up sentence just to satisfy a conceptual information category. Therefore I think John’s second paragraph below is properly understood as an implementation view where he thinks an actual AIP should always have a RepInfo category. One could consider this a possible best practice, but personally I would not go that far. Discussion of this particular view makes sense in the context of ISO 16363. As for the OAIS RM, again I support David’s attempt to clarify that some AIP implementations may not need explicit RepInfo<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><u class="">as it has been defined in the OAIS RM.</u> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Cheers-<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Don<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p><blockquote class="" type="cite" style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">On Jul 17, 2018, at 4:11 AM, John Garrett <<a href="mailto:garrett@his.com" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">garrett@his.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I’m also uncomfortable with the updated conformance. I also feel that it would be a significant change and I think it would open up a door to keep expanding the conformance requirements. I would prefer to try to update Section 2 a bit and keep the Conformance section the same.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Also I’m not on board with having original data objects in an AIP that do not require RepInfo. I think if we have a physical book in local language, we should still require RepInfo as we form the AIP.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Peace and joy,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">-JOhn</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><b class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">MOIMS-DAI [</span><a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: purple;">mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>D or C Sawyer<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, July 16, 2018 11:36 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>MOIMS DAI List <</span><a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: purple;">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Moims-dai] Telecon Notes?</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Dear All,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">The proposal for section 1.4 (conformance) is to include section 4.2 information modeling for conformance. This is a considerable increase in requirement which originally we did not feel comfortable requiring. This is not backward compatible so it may be controversial in the larger community.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">The proposal for section 4.2.1.3 states that an explicit or implicit lack of Representation Information can be regarded as a sufficient expression of meeting a Representation Information requirement. There is a bit of a problem with ‘implicit’ as it could be used as justification for no Representation Information when in fact it was needed. Perhaps the ‘implicit’ should be dropped?<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">However this kind of statement on Representation Information is also true for selected components of PDI (which can also be recursive), depending on the judgement of the Archive in support of the associated Designated Community. I believe some appropriate text is needed for PDI as well, particularly if 4.2 is now to be part of conformance.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Once again I will be unable to participate in the Tuesday DAI telecon as I’ll be working with my contractor.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Cheers-<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Don<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><blockquote class="" type="cite" style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">On Jul 16, 2018, at 8:00 AM, David Giaretta <<a href="mailto:david@giaretta.org" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">david@giaretta.org</span></a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I have added a suggested change - see<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="http://review.oais.info/show_bug.cgi?id=236" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(149, 79, 114);">http://review.oais.info/show_bug.cgi?id=236</span></a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Also, in the resolution of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="http://review.oais.info/show_bug.cgi?id=35" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(149, 79, 114);">http://review.oais.info/show_bug.cgi?id=35</span></a><span class="apple-converted-space"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">there was an action in comment 4 to create a related suggested change which I have done in<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="http://review.oais.info/show_bug.cgi?id=237" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(149, 79, 114);">http://review.oais.info/show_bug.cgi?id=237</span></a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">..David</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><b class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">MOIMS-DAI <</span><a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: purple;">moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>David Giaretta<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>15 July 2018 19:24<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <</span><a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: purple;">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Moims-dai] Telecon Notes?</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Hi Don and others in MOIMS-DAI</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">It looks as if we can reach a conclusion – see below for some general suggestions.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>I will try to suggest something specific on the review site.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Regards</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">..David</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">-----Original Message-----<br class="">From: MOIMS-DAI <</span><a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(149, 79, 114);">moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> On Behalf Of D or C Sawyer<br class="">Sent: 13 July 2018 14:18<br class="">To: MOIMS DAI List <</span><a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(149, 79, 114);">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><br class="">Subject: Re: [Moims-dai] Telecon Notes?</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Hi David, et al.,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I mostly agree with your comments, but see below.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> On Jul 9, 2018, at 7:12 AM, David Giaretta <</span><a href="mailto:david@giaretta.org" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">david@giaretta.org</span></a><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> wrote:</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Hi all</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> I missed the call on which these notes report, but I must make a few comments which I am sure I would have made in the meeting.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> In summary Don's arguments about the Information Model seem to derive from examples of some specific Data Objects, without explicit consideration of the Designated Community, which I argue is misleading, and can be addressed by adding text to the standard to address such "edge cases", as discussed next.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">During the subject telecon it was mentioned that a CDO with no needed Representation Information depended on the Designated Community. The point of the discussion was to note that this is a real example. It could be thought of as an ‘edge case’, as you say, or perhaps the modeling and text should be improved to bring it into compliance.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Yes we definitely should add text to explain this, perhaps in the discussion in section 4.2.1.3 Representation Information.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> The argument about whether or not a Data Object needs Representation Information in order to be understood is misleading in that, as I responded in a previous email, it depends on the Designated Community. In other words, if the Data Object is a piece of paper written in English, and members of the Designated Community can read and understand English then there is no need for an explicit English dictionary because the Designated Community's Knowledge Base includes that.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> However, if the Designated Community were to be defined as readers of Chinese then Representation Information such as an English Dictionary would be needed. So, if one claims that this piece of paper does not need Representation Information then that is in the context of a Repository's definition of a specific Designated Community.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> So in general modelling terms the OAIS Information Model is right - a Data Object needs Representation Information in order to be used/understood. However there may be some specific instances where, for a specific Designated Community, explicit Representation Information is not needed.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> In modelling terms, I would regard cases such as English written on paper to be read by English readers as an "edge case" and to be consistent in such edge cases one should say that the Representation Information is the statement that "for the specific Designated Community no additional explicit Representation Information is currently needed". As far as I can see this would make the model complete and consistent. We could add some wording to the discussion of Representation Information and Designated Community to make this clear.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> In terms of the idea of OAIS being only a "communications framework" - yes it is that, especially the Functional Model, but it also provides something more, namely guidance of what one needs in order to preserve digitally encoded information, and OAIS lays these out in terms of conformance. Thus, the repository needs an AIP with all its components; it needs to undertake all the Mandatory Responsibilities.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Yes on the Mandatory Responsibilities, but on the ‘AIP with all its components’ there is considerable ambiguity. The information modeling conformance only addressed the Information Object and the Information Package as given in Section 2.2. The Information Package is broken into SIPs, AIPs, and DIPs, It is clear that SIPs and DIPs may not contain all the Representation Information or PDI. The implication (not stated) is that the AIP does contain all the Representation Information and PDI. Certainly it does conceptually. However the conformance section (1.4) addresses an actual Archive. The example above raises the conformance issue for an Archive that only preserves hardcopy documents, with no Representation Information, yet still fully understandable to its Designated Community, Maybe it also finds it doesn’t need all the PDI. Can it still claim to be OAIS conformant? I would say ‘yes’ as long as it is making a reasonable argument for not having all the components of the section 2.2 information models. Note also that none of the modeling in section 4.2 is required for OAIS RM conformance. Given that OAIS RM conformance has sometime been a topic of concern to others as well as to this working group, I recommend it be clarified.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I agree – we should make it clear that 2.2 and 4.2 are both included in the Mandatory Responsibilities and also in the Conformance section. In section 2.2 we say “While formal modeling of information is provided in section 4, some key concepts are provided in this subsection” but this should be expanded also.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> I realise that to some readers all this may seem like a very abstruse, uninteresting discussion. However, it IS important because there will be times when repository staff will come across puzzling cases and we need to make sure, as far as humanly possible, that OAIS provides useful, correct and consistent guidance when read carefully.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Yes, we should want the OAIS RM to be as clear and unambiguous as we can make it.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Yes I think we have relied on some implicit connections that should be made explicit.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Cheers-</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Don</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Hope that helps</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> ..David</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> -----Original Message-----</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> From: MOIMS-DAI <</span><a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> On Behalf Of John Garrett</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Sent: 07 July 2018 05:55</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> To: 'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <</span><a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Subject: [Moims-dai] FW: Telecon Notes?</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> -----Original Message-----</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> From: Don Sawyer [</span><a href="mailto:topcottageguys@gmail.com" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">mailto:topcottageguys@gmail.com</span></a><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">] On Behalf Of D or C Sawyer</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Sent: Monday, July 2, 2018 8:18 AM</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> To: John Garrett <</span><a href="mailto:garrett@his.com" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">garrett@his.com</span></a><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Cc: Hughes, John S (398B) <</span><a href="mailto:John.S.Hughes@jpl.nasa.gov" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">John.S.Hughes@jpl.nasa.gov</span></a><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">>; Mark Conrad <</span><a href="mailto:Mark.Conrad@nara.gov" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">Mark.Conrad@nara.gov</span></a><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Subject: Re: Telecon Notes?</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Hi John,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> I’ve made a few comments to your comments. I think our differing views are pretty clear. If you want to add some more comments, or not, I have no objections to your sending this out to the wider group.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Cheers-</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Don</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> _______________________________________________</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> MOIMS-DAI mailing list</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai</span></a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span lang="IT" class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">_______________________________________________</span><span lang="IT" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span lang="IT" class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">MOIMS-DAI mailing list</span><span lang="IT" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><a href="mailto:MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="IT" class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span lang="IT" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><a href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="IT" class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai</span></a><span lang="IT" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span lang="IT" class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">_______________________________________________<br class="">MOIMS-DAI mailing list<br class=""></span><a href="mailto:MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="IT" class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: purple;">MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span lang="IT" class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br class=""></span><a href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="IT" class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: purple;">https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai</span></a><span lang="IT" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span lang="IT" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span lang="IT" class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">_______________________________________________<br class="">MOIMS-DAI mailing list<br class=""></span><a href="mailto:MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="IT" class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: purple;">MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span lang="IT" class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br class=""></span><a href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="IT" class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: purple;">https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai</span></a><span lang="IT" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span lang="IT" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span lang="IT" class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">_______________________________________________<br class="">MOIMS-DAI mailing list<br class=""></span><a href="mailto:MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="IT" class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span lang="IT" class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br class=""></span><a href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="IT" class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai</span></a><span lang="IT" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span lang="IT" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div></div><span class="" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">_______________________________________________</span><br class="" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class="" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">MOIMS-DAI mailing list</span><br class="" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><a href="mailto:MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org</a><br class="" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><a href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai" class="" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai</a></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>