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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Sorry that I have been responding more regularly on this topic but there have been so many other fun things to do.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I tend to agree with John’s view and concerns. However I will try to address the issue from a different point of view.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I believe that everyone would agree that a physical book in the context of an OAIS archive is an information object. I can accept that there is no need for Representation
Information in the strict sense, i.e., information that maps the Data Object into more meaningful concepts, for example a data format.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">However definitional information is require, for example “the data object is a hardcopy book”. I have accepted Mark’s suggestion that the definitional information
can be recast as representation for the purpose of maintaining the integrity of the OAIS Information Object. This is a rather useful expedient otherwise the PDS4 information model collapses. Also defining something is in some ways a mapping a thing to a more
meaningful concept. However strictly speaking, defining something is the first step in providing meaning.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">So my position is that some information, call it representation information or definitional information is required for every data object (CDO).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> MOIMS-DAI [mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Garrett<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 23, 2018 10:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Moims-dai] Telecon Notes?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Don,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hope things are going well with you and the family. I hope you’re making progress with the renovations. David is finishing his. Time for me to start some more.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Now down to work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I have to say that I still think that if a physical book is the CDO for an AIP then Rep Info is still required. The Rep Info may be minimal and may be as simple
as saying “The CDO is a physical book and can be interpreted by simply viewing/reading it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Since an AIP is a logical construct, if the whole repository is composed of physical books, then the implementation could be that the above statement could logically
be considered as the Rep Info for all the AIPs. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I also don’t see why the made up sentence is a different meaning for Rep Info. It seems to me that the made up sentence is explaining how to make sense of the
CDO as much as any other Rep Info. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Conceptually, I don’t understand how a implementation that logically does not have any Rep Info can also be considered to logically have Rep Info.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Who decides if a CDO, physical or digital, requires Rep Info if it is not always required?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Does a physical book require Rep Info if it is in a foreign language?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">If everyone else agrees that Rep Info is not required, we can make that change.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">But if we do mean to make that change, we certainly need to change all the figures (and any related text) that show one-to-one relationships between the CDO and
Rep Info in the OAIS standard.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Peace and joy,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">-JOhn<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> MOIMS-DAI [<a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>D or C Sawyer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, July 22, 2018 9:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> MOIMS DAI List <<a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Moims-dai] Telecon Notes?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear all,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I would like to return to this point in the discussion on David’s proposal as I think David has made some valuable points that may get lost. I have not heard anyone disagree that, under some circumstances, a physical book does not need
RepInfo. As an example, I believe an Archive implemented primarily for the preservation of physical books (Content Data Objects) understandable to the associated Designated Community would be fully justified in not conjuring up information, to be called RepInfo,
just to meet someone’s concept of a best practice or a mandatory requirement for some type of certification. There may, or may not, eventually be a requirement for the addition of real RepInfo to such CDOs. This is all about practical implementations. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In contrast, the OAIS RM is a conceptual model and its AIP is the key unit of information that is being preserved. The AIP is defined to include RepInfo with the CDO, forming Content Information, as this Content Information entity is of
central importance to the preservation of digital information. I see no reason to alter this Content Information definition and I don’t believe anyone is proposing to do so. At the same time I have no problem recognizing that some implementations, such as
that given in the Archive example above, may have an AIP whose Content Information is the CDO alone. This simply reflects local, practical, reality. The example highlights the possible differences between a concept and local reality. In my opinion, when there
is good justification, such differences should not be of major concern. David’s proposal for the OAIS RM regarding implicit and explicit RepInfo is designed to acknowledge this reality. While I had some objection to the ‘implicit’ part of his proposed wordingl,
I firmly support the attempt and believe some appropriate words can be found. It should not take a lot of discussion to find such words if there is agreement on the objective.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">When the OAIS RM uses the phrase ‘Representation Information’, it should mean the same concept everywhere in the document. It should not also stand for some made up sentence just to satisfy a conceptual information category. Therefore
I think John’s second paragraph below is properly understood as an implementation view where he thinks an actual AIP should always have a RepInfo category. One could consider this a possible best practice, but personally I would not go that far. Discussion
of this particular view makes sense in the context of ISO 16363. As for the OAIS RM, again I support David’s attempt to clarify that some AIP implementations may not need explicit RepInfo
<u>as it has been defined in the OAIS RM.</u> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers-<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Don<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Jul 17, 2018, at 4:11 AM, John Garrett <<a href="mailto:garrett@his.com">garrett@his.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I’m also uncomfortable with the updated conformance. I also feel that it would be a significant change and I think it would open up a door to keep expanding
the conformance requirements. I would prefer to try to update Section 2 a bit and keep the Conformance section the same.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Also I’m not on board with having original data objects in an AIP that do not require RepInfo. I think if we have a physical book in local language, we should
still require RepInfo as we form the AIP.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Peace and joy,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">-JOhn</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">MOIMS-DAI
[<a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>D or C Sawyer<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, July 16, 2018 11:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>MOIMS DAI List <<a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Moims-dai] Telecon Notes?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The proposal for section 1.4 (conformance) is to include section 4.2 information modeling for conformance. This is a considerable increase in requirement which originally we did not feel comfortable requiring. This is not backward compatible
so it may be controversial in the larger community.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The proposal for section 4.2.1.3 states that an explicit or implicit lack of Representation Information can be regarded as a sufficient expression of meeting a Representation Information requirement. There is a bit of a problem with ‘implicit’
as it could be used as justification for no Representation Information when in fact it was needed. Perhaps the ‘implicit’ should be dropped?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">However this kind of statement on Representation Information is also true for selected components of PDI (which can also be recursive), depending on the judgement of the Archive in support of the associated Designated Community. I believe
some appropriate text is needed for PDI as well, particularly if 4.2 is now to be part of conformance.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Once again I will be unable to participate in the Tuesday DAI telecon as I’ll be working with my contractor.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers-<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Don<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Jul 16, 2018, at 8:00 AM, David Giaretta <<a href="mailto:david@giaretta.org"><span style="color:purple">david@giaretta.org</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I have added a suggested change - see<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://review.oais.info/show_bug.cgi?id=236"><span style="color:#954F72">http://review.oais.info/show_bug.cgi?id=236</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Also, in the resolution of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://review.oais.info/show_bug.cgi?id=35"><span style="color:#954F72">http://review.oais.info/show_bug.cgi?id=35</span></a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>there
was an action in comment 4 to create a related suggested change which I have done in<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://review.oais.info/show_bug.cgi?id=237"><span style="color:#954F72">http://review.oais.info/show_bug.cgi?id=237</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">..David</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">MOIMS-DAI
<<a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style="color:purple">moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a>><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>David Giaretta<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>15 July 2018 19:24<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <<a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style="color:purple">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Moims-dai] Telecon Notes?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hi Don and others in MOIMS-DAI</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">It looks as if we can reach a conclusion – see below for some general suggestions.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>I will try to suggest something specific on the
review site.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">..David</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: MOIMS-DAI <<a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style="color:#954F72">moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a>> On Behalf Of D or C Sawyer<br>
Sent: 13 July 2018 14:18<br>
To: MOIMS DAI List <<a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style="color:#954F72">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Moims-dai] Telecon Notes?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hi David, et al.,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I mostly agree with your comments, but see below.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> On Jul 9, 2018, at 7:12 AM, David Giaretta <<a href="mailto:david@giaretta.org"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">david@giaretta.org</span></a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> Hi all</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> I missed the call on which these notes report, but I must make a few comments which I am sure I would have made in the meeting.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> In summary Don's arguments about the Information Model seem to derive from examples of some specific Data Objects, without explicit consideration of the Designated Community,
which I argue is misleading, and can be addressed by adding text to the standard to address such "edge cases", as discussed next.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">During the subject telecon it was mentioned that a CDO with no needed Representation Information depended on the Designated Community. The point of the discussion was to note
that this is a real example. It could be thought of as an ‘edge case’, as you say, or perhaps the modeling and text should be improved to bring it into compliance.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Yes we definitely should add text to explain this, perhaps in the discussion in section 4.2.1.3 Representation Information.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> The argument about whether or not a Data Object needs Representation Information in order to be understood is misleading in that, as I responded in a previous email, it depends
on the Designated Community. In other words, if the Data Object is a piece of paper written in English, and members of the Designated Community can read and understand English then there is no need for an explicit English dictionary because the Designated
Community's Knowledge Base includes that.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> However, if the Designated Community were to be defined as readers of Chinese then Representation Information such as an English Dictionary would be needed. So, if one claims
that this piece of paper does not need Representation Information then that is in the context of a Repository's definition of a specific Designated Community.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> So in general modelling terms the OAIS Information Model is right - a Data Object needs Representation Information in order to be used/understood. However there may be some
specific instances where, for a specific Designated Community, explicit Representation Information is not needed.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> In modelling terms, I would regard cases such as English written on paper to be read by English readers as an "edge case" and to be consistent in such edge cases one should
say that the Representation Information is the statement that "for the specific Designated Community no additional explicit Representation Information is currently needed". As far as I can see this would make the model complete and consistent. We could add
some wording to the discussion of Representation Information and Designated Community to make this clear.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> In terms of the idea of OAIS being only a "communications framework" - yes it is that, especially the Functional Model, but it also provides something more, namely guidance
of what one needs in order to preserve digitally encoded information, and OAIS lays these out in terms of conformance. Thus, the repository needs an AIP with all its components; it needs to undertake all the Mandatory Responsibilities.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Yes on the Mandatory Responsibilities, but on the ‘AIP with all its components’ there is considerable ambiguity. The information modeling conformance only addressed the Information
Object and the Information Package as given in Section 2.2. The Information Package is broken into SIPs, AIPs, and DIPs, It is clear that SIPs and DIPs may not contain all the Representation Information or PDI. The implication (not stated) is that the AIP
does contain all the Representation Information and PDI. Certainly it does conceptually. However the conformance section (1.4) addresses an actual Archive. The example above raises the conformance issue for an Archive that only preserves hardcopy documents,
with no Representation Information, yet still fully understandable to its Designated Community, Maybe it also finds it doesn’t need all the PDI. Can it still claim to be OAIS conformant? I would say ‘yes’ as long as it is making a reasonable argument for
not having all the components of the section 2.2 information models. Note also that none of the modeling in section 4.2 is required for OAIS RM conformance. Given that OAIS RM conformance has sometime been a topic of concern to others as well as to this
working group, I recommend it be clarified.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I agree – we should make it clear that 2.2 and 4.2 are both included in the Mandatory Responsibilities and also in the Conformance section. In section 2.2 we say “While formal
modeling of information is provided in section 4, some key concepts are provided in this subsection” but this should be expanded also.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> I realise that to some readers all this may seem like a very abstruse, uninteresting discussion. However, it IS important because there will be times when repository staff
will come across puzzling cases and we need to make sure, as far as humanly possible, that OAIS provides useful, correct and consistent guidance when read carefully.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Yes, we should want the OAIS RM to be as clear and unambiguous as we can make it.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Yes I think we have relied on some implicit connections that should be made explicit.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Cheers-</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Don</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> Hope that helps</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> ..David</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> -----Original Message-----</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> From: MOIMS-DAI <<a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a>>
On Behalf Of John Garrett</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> Sent: 07 July 2018 05:55</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> To: 'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <<a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a>></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> Subject: [Moims-dai] FW: Telecon Notes?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> -----Original Message-----</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> From: Don Sawyer [<a href="mailto:topcottageguys@gmail.com"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:topcottageguys@gmail.com</span></a>] On Behalf Of D
or C Sawyer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> Sent: Monday, July 2, 2018 8:18 AM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> To: John Garrett <<a href="mailto:garrett@his.com"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">garrett@his.com</span></a>></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> Cc: Hughes, John S (398B) <<a href="mailto:John.S.Hughes@jpl.nasa.gov"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">John.S.Hughes@jpl.nasa.gov</span></a>>; Mark Conrad
<<a href="mailto:Mark.Conrad@nara.gov"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Mark.Conrad@nara.gov</span></a>></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> Subject: Re: Telecon Notes?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> Hi John,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> I’ve made a few comments to your comments. I think our differing views are pretty clear. If you want to add some more comments, or not, I have no objections to your sending
this out to the wider group.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> Cheers-</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> Don</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> _______________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">> MOIMS-DAI mailing list</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">_______________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">MOIMS-DAI mailing list</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">_______________________________________________<br>
MOIMS-DAI mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style="color:purple">MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><br>
<a href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai"><span style="color:purple">https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">_______________________________________________<br>
MOIMS-DAI mailing list<br>
</span><a href="mailto:MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:purple">MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
</span><a href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:purple">https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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