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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Hi David,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I think it is huge change to add 4.2 to the requirements for conformance to OAIS. Currently an OAIS archive only need the Info Model items described in 2.2 (only about 5 pages and a couple figures). We’re now proposing that we add all of 4.2 (about 30 pages of text and about 15 additional figures). This is a huge expansion of what is required for conformance and should be considered at length. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I think the vast majority of archives probably comply with 4.2 as well as 2.2, but certainly probably not all. Perhaps the community wants to expand what conformance to OAIS means, but we need to think about that. And we need to think about objections we might get to making that change. It may be the right thing to do, but I think we should at least look in detail about everything in 4.2 to see why it should be part of conformance.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Peace and joy,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>-JOhn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> MOIMS-DAI [mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>david<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 17, 2018 8:07 AM<br><b>To:</b> MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability <moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Moims-dai] Telecon Notes?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi John<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I will not be able to make the call today.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>For the conformance section i was trying to make the link to 4.2 a bit clearer. Are there parts of 4.2 you would like to exclude?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>In terms of the AIP I was just trying to round off the edge case we discussed in the emails.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Regards<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>David<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div id="composer_signature"><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#575757'>Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>-------- Original message --------<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>From: John Garrett <<a href="mailto:garrett@his.com">garrett@his.com</a>> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Date: 17/07/2018 09:11 (GMT+00:00) <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>To: 'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <<a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Subject: Re: [Moims-dai] Telecon Notes? <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Hi,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I’m also uncomfortable with the updated conformance. I also feel that it would be a significant change and I think it would open up a door to keep expanding the conformance requirements. I would prefer to try to update Section 2 a bit and keep the Conformance section the same.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Also I’m not on board with having original data objects in an AIP that do not require RepInfo. I think if we have a physical book in local language, we should still require RepInfo as we form the AIP.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Peace and joy,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>-JOhn</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> MOIMS-DAI [<a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>D or C Sawyer<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 16, 2018 11:36 PM<br><b>To:</b> MOIMS DAI List <<a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Moims-dai] Telecon Notes?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Dear All,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The proposal for section 1.4 (conformance) is to include section 4.2 information modeling for conformance. This is a considerable increase in requirement which originally we did not feel comfortable requiring. This is not backward compatible so it may be controversial in the larger community.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The proposal for section 4.2.1.3 states that an explicit or implicit lack of Representation Information can be regarded as a sufficient expression of meeting a Representation Information requirement. There is a bit of a problem with ‘implicit’ as it could be used as justification for no Representation Information when in fact it was needed. Perhaps the ‘implicit’ should be dropped?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>However this kind of statement on Representation Information is also true for selected components of PDI (which can also be recursive), depending on the judgement of the Archive in support of the associated Designated Community. I believe some appropriate text is needed for PDI as well, particularly if 4.2 is now to be part of conformance.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Once again I will be unable to participate in the Tuesday DAI telecon as I’ll be working with my contractor.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Cheers-<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Don<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Jul 16, 2018, at 8:00 AM, David Giaretta <<a href="mailto:david@giaretta.org">david@giaretta.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I have added a suggested change - see<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://review.oais.info/show_bug.cgi?id=236"><span style='color:#954F72'>http://review.oais.info/show_bug.cgi?id=236</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Also, in the resolution of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://review.oais.info/show_bug.cgi?id=35"><span style='color:#954F72'>http://review.oais.info/show_bug.cgi?id=35</span></a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>there was an action in comment 4 to create a related suggested change which I have done in<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://review.oais.info/show_bug.cgi?id=237"><span style='color:#954F72'>http://review.oais.info/show_bug.cgi?id=237</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>..David</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>MOIMS-DAI <<a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org">moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>David Giaretta<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>15 July 2018 19:24<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <<a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [Moims-dai] Telecon Notes?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Hi Don and others in MOIMS-DAI</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>It looks as if we can reach a conclusion – see below for some general suggestions.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span>I will try to suggest something specific on the review site.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>..David</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>-----Original Message-----<br>From: MOIMS-DAI <<a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style='color:#954F72'>moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a>> On Behalf Of D or C Sawyer<br>Sent: 13 July 2018 14:18<br>To: MOIMS DAI List <<a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style='color:#954F72'>moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a>><br>Subject: Re: [Moims-dai] Telecon Notes?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Hi David, et al.,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I mostly agree with your comments, but see below.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> On Jul 9, 2018, at 7:12 AM, David Giaretta <<a href="mailto:david@giaretta.org"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>david@giaretta.org</span></a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> Hi all</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> I missed the call on which these notes report, but I must make a few comments which I am sure I would have made in the meeting.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> In summary Don's arguments about the Information Model seem to derive from examples of some specific Data Objects, without explicit consideration of the Designated Community, which I argue is misleading, and can be addressed by adding text to the standard to address such "edge cases", as discussed next.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>During the subject telecon it was mentioned that a CDO with no needed Representation Information depended on the Designated Community. The point of the discussion was to note that this is a real example. It could be thought of as an ‘edge case’, as you say, or perhaps the modeling and text should be improved to bring it into compliance.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Yes we definitely should add text to explain this, perhaps in the discussion in section 4.2.1.3 Representation Information.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> The argument about whether or not a Data Object needs Representation Information in order to be understood is misleading in that, as I responded in a previous email, it depends on the Designated Community. In other words, if the Data Object is a piece of paper written in English, and members of the Designated Community can read and understand English then there is no need for an explicit English dictionary because the Designated Community's Knowledge Base includes that.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> However, if the Designated Community were to be defined as readers of Chinese then Representation Information such as an English Dictionary would be needed. So, if one claims that this piece of paper does not need Representation Information then that is in the context of a Repository's definition of a specific Designated Community.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> So in general modelling terms the OAIS Information Model is right - a Data Object needs Representation Information in order to be used/understood. However there may be some specific instances where, for a specific Designated Community, explicit Representation Information is not needed.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> In modelling terms, I would regard cases such as English written on paper to be read by English readers as an "edge case" and to be consistent in such edge cases one should say that the Representation Information is the statement that "for the specific Designated Community no additional explicit Representation Information is currently needed". As far as I can see this would make the model complete and consistent. We could add some wording to the discussion of Representation Information and Designated Community to make this clear.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> In terms of the idea of OAIS being only a "communications framework" - yes it is that, especially the Functional Model, but it also provides something more, namely guidance of what one needs in order to preserve digitally encoded information, and OAIS lays these out in terms of conformance. Thus, the repository needs an AIP with all its components; it needs to undertake all the Mandatory Responsibilities.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Yes on the Mandatory Responsibilities, but on the ‘AIP with all its components’ there is considerable ambiguity. The information modeling conformance only addressed the Information Object and the Information Package as given in Section 2.2. The Information Package is broken into SIPs, AIPs, and DIPs, It is clear that SIPs and DIPs may not contain all the Representation Information or PDI. The implication (not stated) is that the AIP does contain all the Representation Information and PDI. Certainly it does conceptually. However the conformance section (1.4) addresses an actual Archive. The example above raises the conformance issue for an Archive that only preserves hardcopy documents, with no Representation Information, yet still fully understandable to its Designated Community, Maybe it also finds it doesn’t need all the PDI. Can it still claim to be OAIS conformant? I would say ‘yes’ as long as it is making a reasonable argument for not having all the components of the section 2.2 information models. Note also that none of the modeling in section 4.2 is required for OAIS RM conformance. Given that OAIS RM conformance has sometime been a topic of concern to others as well as to this working group, I recommend it be clarified.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I agree – we should make it clear that 2.2 and 4.2 are both included in the Mandatory Responsibilities and also in the Conformance section. In section 2.2 we say “While formal modeling of information is provided in section 4, some key concepts are provided in this subsection” but this should be expanded also.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> I realise that to some readers all this may seem like a very abstruse, uninteresting discussion. However, it IS important because there will be times when repository staff will come across puzzling cases and we need to make sure, as far as humanly possible, that OAIS provides useful, correct and consistent guidance when read carefully.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Yes, we should want the OAIS RM to be as clear and unambiguous as we can make it.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Yes I think we have relied on some implicit connections that should be made explicit.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Cheers-</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Don</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> Hope that helps</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> ..David</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> -----Original Message-----</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> From: MOIMS-DAI <<a href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a>> On Behalf Of John Garrett</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> Sent: 07 July 2018 05:55</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> To: 'MOIMS-Data Archive Interoperability' <<a href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a>></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> Subject: [Moims-dai] FW: Telecon Notes?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> -----Original Message-----</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> From: Don Sawyer [<a href="mailto:topcottageguys@gmail.com"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>mailto:topcottageguys@gmail.com</span></a>] On Behalf Of D or C Sawyer</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> Sent: Monday, July 2, 2018 8:18 AM</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> To: John Garrett <<a href="mailto:garrett@his.com"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>garrett@his.com</span></a>></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> Cc: Hughes, John S (398B) <<a href="mailto:John.S.Hughes@jpl.nasa.gov"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>John.S.Hughes@jpl.nasa.gov</span></a>>; Mark Conrad <<a href="mailto:Mark.Conrad@nara.gov"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>Mark.Conrad@nara.gov</span></a>></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> Subject: Re: Telecon Notes?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> Hi John,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> I’ve made a few comments to your comments. I think our differing views are pretty clear. If you want to add some more comments, or not, I have no objections to your sending this out to the wider group.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> Cheers-</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> Don</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> _______________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> MOIMS-DAI mailing list</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>_______________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>MOIMS-DAI mailing list</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><a href="mailto:MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><a href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>_______________________________________________<br>MOIMS-DAI mailing list<br><a href="mailto:MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org">MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org</a><br><a href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai">https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>