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<div>Likewise!</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">Steve<br>
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Sent from my iPhone</div>
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On Sep 14, 2016, at 1:29 PM, Robert R. Downs <<a href="mailto:rdowns@ciesin.columbia.edu">rdowns@ciesin.columbia.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
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<p>Yes, your efforts are most appreciated!</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>Bob (in Denver)</p>
<p>Robert R. Downs, PhD<br>
Senior Digital Archivist and Senior Staff Associate Officer of Research<br>
Acting Head of Cyberinfrastructure and Informatics Research and Development<br>
Center for International Earth Science Information Network (CIESIN),<br>
The Earth Institute, Columbia University<br>
P.O. Box 1000, 61 Route 9W, Palisades, NY 10964 USA<br>
Voice: 845-365-8985; fax: 845-365-8922<br>
E-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rdowns@ciesin.columbia.edu">
rdowns@ciesin.columbia.edu</a><br>
Columbia University CIESIN Web site: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.ciesin.columbia.edu">
http://www.ciesin.columbia.edu</a><br>
ORCID: 0000-0002-8595-5134<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/14/2016 3:56 PM, Mark Conrad wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Thank you, gentlemen.</div>
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<div>Mark Conrad<br>
NARA Information Services</div>
<div>IAS<br>
The National Archives and Records Administration<br>
Erma Ora Byrd Conference and Learning Center<br>
Building 494, Room 225<br>
610 State Route 956<br>
Rocket Center, WV 26726<br>
<br>
Phone: 304-726-7820<br>
Fax: 304-726-7802<br>
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mark.conrad@nara.gov" target="_blank">
mark.conrad@nara.gov</a> <br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 3:32 PM, David Giaretta <span dir="ltr">
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:david@giaretta.org" target="_blank">david@giaretta.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div>John was there throughout and Terry for pretty well all as well.</div>
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<div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757">Sent from my Samsung device</div>
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-------- Original message --------<br>
From: Mark Conrad <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mark.conrad@nara.gov" target="_blank">mark.conrad@nara.gov</a>>
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Date: 14/09/2016 20:16 (GMT+00:00) <br>
To: MOIMS-Data Archive Ingestion <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>>
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Subject: Re: [Moims-dai] Draft responses to MOSSG <br>
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<div dir="ltr">Three hours! Wow. Thanks, David, for carrying the DAI flag over such an extended session!
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 2:23 PM, David Giaretta <span dir="ltr">
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:david@giaretta.org" target="_blank">david@giaretta.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">We just finished a 3 hour webex with Mario and others. We should see the combined comments later. I think Mario has included at least some of our points.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">..David</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true" name="m_8961198062154302243_m_-428720735434453929__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> MOIMS-DAI [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank">moims-dai-bounces@mail<wbr>man.ccsds.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mike Kearney<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 14 September 2016 18:59<br>
<b>To:</b> 'MOIMS-Data Archive Ingestion' <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Moims-dai] Draft responses to MOSSG</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">I think this is moot, since the MOIMS telecon is over, and David has turned in whatever he decided on.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">But to close the loop… I wanted those guys to *<b>acknowledge</b>* a post-mission requirement, because I’m sure they’re not even thinking of such
a thing right now. Also, the Shuttle program was 30 years, and they used one format/access method (ODRC) throughout the whole program, I’m pretty sure. Actually, I think ISS is still using it. That’s why it’s hard to get some (high-visibility) programs
to address digital preservation. They’ve kept the constraints of historic access as requirements on new software development, hence they mistakenly think “we’re doing long-term preservation already”.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">Again, I’m just the messenger, explaining what they’re thinking “on the other side”.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> -=- Mike</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">Mike Kearney</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">Huntsville, Alabama, USA</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> MOIMS-DAI [<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank">mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mail<wbr>man.ccsds.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark Conrad<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 14, 2016 7:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> MOIMS-Data Archive Ingestion <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Moims-dai] Draft responses to MOSSG</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">"</span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:red;background:#f2f2f2" lang="EN-US"> both during the mission lifetime, and in long-term archives post-mission.</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:red;background:#f2f2f2" lang="EN-US"> "</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:red;background:#f2f2f2" lang="EN-US">If the mission is more than a few years long, they will probably need long-term archives during the mission.</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Mark Conrad<br>
NARA Information Services</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">IAS<br>
The National Archives and Records Administration<br>
Erma Ora Byrd Conference and Learning Center<br>
Building 494, Room 225<br>
610 State Route 956<br>
Rocket Center, WV 26726<br>
<br>
Phone: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:304-726-7820" value="+13047267820" target="_blank">
304-726-7820</a><br>
Fax: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:304-726-7802" value="+13047267802" target="_blank">
304-726-7802</a><br>
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mark.conrad@nara.gov" target="_blank">
mark.conrad@nara.gov</a> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 8:07 AM, Mike Kearney <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:kearneysolutions@gmail.com" target="_blank">kearneysolutions@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true" name="m_8961198062154302243_m_-428720735434453929_m_-5582551412819744312__MailEndCompose"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">It would probably be good to tell them a from/to statement… you have explained
the background, but you don’t quite tell them what you want the document to say. Something like this?
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<p> <span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA">Integration levels</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA">Archiving</span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA">Degree</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA">of Interoperability</span></b></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-CA">Ops, engineering <b><span style="color:red">and science</span></b><span style="color:red">
</span>teams from various space agencies need to integrate their data in a<b><span style="color:red">n</span></b>
<s>common</s> archive <b><span style="color:red">or set of archives,</span></b><span style="color:red">
</span>and update/retrieve from <b><span style="color:red">them, both during the mission lifetime, and in long-term archives post-mission.</span></b><span style="color:red">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-CA">Agreed common data formats (data standard), agreements on metadata content,
<s>central archive server and clients. </s><b><span style="color:red">compliance with long-term digital preservation practices, such as CCSDS standards for OAIS, PAIS and future protocol-level standards yet to be developed by CCSDS.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">I think they might contest the need to share long-term archives of engineering and ops data post-mission, so I added Science teams to their list… that’s clearly not contestable.
</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">Also, I don’t know why they said they had to agree on a central archive server and clients. Distributed archives would work also. Don’t think that should be necessary for archive interoperability.
So I scratched it out. Am I missing something? Also scratched out “common” archive in the left box and suggested “an archive or set of archives”. Seems like a “common, central” archive is old-school and constraining.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> -=- Mike</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">Mike Kearney</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">Huntsville, Alabama, USA</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> MOIMS-DAI [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:moims-dai-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank">moims-dai-bounces@mail<wbr>man.ccsds.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Giaretta<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 13, 2016 4:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'MOIMS-Data Archive Ingestion' <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank">moims-dai@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Moims-dai] Draft responses to MOSSG</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">As discussed at the DAI webex today, here is a collection of comments on the MOSSG paper. Any last updates?<span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">..David<span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p>1)<span style="font-size:7.0pt"> </span>Although the paper states “Archive ingestion is not considered part of the IOAG interoperability goals.”, nevertheless as is recognised in “However, the assumption is that there are mechanisms for archive ingestion
implemented”, it will not be possible to get data out of an archive unless data is ingested into it. MOIMS-DAI covers data ingest and should be mentioned in the document, for example CCSDS 651.1-B-1, Producer-Archive Interface Specification (PAIS). Blue Book.
Issue 1. February 2014.<span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p>2)<span style="font-size:7.0pt"> </span>The use of the word archive is misleading. What is discussed in most of the document is what might be termed “short-term storage”. For example, the Service Description of the kind “Archive of Agency Y is accessed
by Agency X to…”, which implies simple access to the bits which have been stored. Interoperability normally means being able to use the bits.
<span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p>The MOIMS-DAI work on archives is about maintaining the usability of the bits.
<span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p>If agencies X and Y use the same format and semantics for the bits then there is no problem. If one the other hand they do not then agency X will need additional information. This may be relevant if there is a long time between the creation of the data by
Agency Y and the use by Agency X. It may also be relevant if there is very little time between creation and use, for example if the agencies use different systems.
<span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p>This is recognised in slide 29 in the PowerPoint presentation which has, at the top level:<span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-CA">Ops and engineering teams from various space agencies need to integrate their data in a common archive and update/retrieve from it</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-CA">Agreed common data formats (data standard), agreements on metadata content, central archive server and clients</span></p>
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<p> <span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p>There are several problems with the right hand side:<span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:54.0pt">a)<span style="font-size:7.0pt"> </span>Agreeing formats is not adequate. For example the agencies could agree to use CSV – but what do the elements mean? what are the units? Is agency X going to combine something measured
in meters with something measured in feet? In other words what metadata content is needed? This is what DAI is concerned with.<span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:54.0pt">b)<span style="font-size:7.0pt"> </span>If Agency X wants the data from Agency Y after Y’s project has ended, can one be sure that the right metadata has been collected? MOIMS-DAI is working on “INFORMATION PREPARATION TO
ENABLE LONG TERM USE” to create a checklist to help ensure that enough of the right kinds of metadata is collected. Of course ensuring the data continues to be usable despite the inevitable changes over time in software, systems, semantics etc., is covered
by CCSDS 650.0-M-2, Reference Model for an Open Archival Information System (OAIS). Magenta Book. Issue 2. June 2012.<span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
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MOIMS-DAI mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank">MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai" target="_blank">https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-<wbr>bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai</a></span></p>
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MOIMS-DAI mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org" target="_blank">MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-<wbr>bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai</a><br>
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______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
MOIMS-DAI mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org">MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-<wbr>bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai</a><br>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
MOIMS-DAI mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org">MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai">https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai</a>
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<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>MOIMS-DAI mailing list</span><br>
<span><a href="mailto:MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org">MOIMS-DAI@mailman.ccsds.org</a></span><br>
<span><a href="https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai">https://mailman.ccsds.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/moims-dai</a></span><br>
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