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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Peter,<br>
<br>
thanks for your prompt reply. in general terms we are on the same
page and I was just trying to backup your position. In more
specific terms I wanted to convey the message that imho just
adding the sentence<br>
<br>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style="font-size: 14px;"><font
face="Calibri" size="2">"TC defines and uses the CLCW, which
is carried in the TM (or AOS) OCF field for use in COP
re-transmission operations. The ROCF service is used to
provide this CLCW to the user so that these re-transmission
operations may be implemented in the user MOC."</font> </span>
<br>
<br>
won't cure the problem. As I tried to explain in my previous
email, talking of the CLCW as the only OCF use case might be very
confusing to the reader the latest when he/she gets to all the
ROCF-START options. My second concern is that without addressing
the potential terrestrial comms bandwidth limitations and the
potential operational low latency requirements for the OCF
delivery it is difficult to understand why ROCF is needed on top
of RAF and RCF. All I'm suggesting is that these aspects are taken
into account when we create the modest introductory material. This
should put the reader on the right track from the beginning.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Wolfgang <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 21.05.2015 um 16:46 schrieb Shames, Peter M (312B):<br>
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<blockquote cite="mid:D1833C0A.C30F7%25peter.m.shames@jpl.nasa.gov"
type="cite">
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<div><span style="font-size: 16px;">Thanks Wolfgang. I was not in
any way suggesting that we add voluminous Green Book
materials, nor that we slight any of the key features, such as
those you mentioned in the OCF section.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 16px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 16px;">What I was doing was proposing
that we add a modest paragraph or two (or even three) to the
introductory sections of these documents. In many cases, as
in OCF, that sort of simple "here is what this does and why it
is important" intro was missing. Right now the ROCF devotes
page after page of introductory "Green Book material" to
definitions of the service itself, to the SLE reference model,
service management, return frame and OCF production and
provisioning, scheduling, underlying services, buffering,
security aspects, etc, etc. These introductory materials are
the first 47 pages of the spec.</span></div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt;"><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt;"><o:p>I think we can do beter by our users, without
being unnecessarily duplicative by including too much Green
Book material in a Blue Book.</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt;"><o:p><br>
</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt;"><o:p>Best regards, Peter</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt;"><o:p><br>
</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt;"><o:p><br>
</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt;"><o:p><br>
</o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
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<div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt;
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BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Wolfgang Hell
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Wolfgang_._Hell@t-online.de">Wolfgang_._Hell@t-online.de</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday, May 21,
2015 at 3:21 AM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>"<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int">Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int">Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int</a>>,
Erik Barkley <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Erik.J.Barkley@jpl.nasa.gov">Erik.J.Barkley@jpl.nasa.gov</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>CSTS-WG <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:css-csts@mailman.ccsds.org">css-csts@mailman.ccsds.org</a>>,
"<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Holger.Dreihahn@esa.int">Holger.Dreihahn@esa.int</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Holger.Dreihahn@esa.int">Holger.Dreihahn@esa.int</a>>,
Peter Shames <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:peter.m.shames@jpl.nasa.gov">peter.m.shames@jpl.nasa.gov</a>>,
"John Pietras (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pietras@gst.com">pietras@gst.com</a>)" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:pietras@gst.com">pietras@gst.com</a>>,
Tom Gannett <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:thomas.gannett@tgannett.net">thomas.gannett@tgannett.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: An update
to the ROCF SLE recommendation that can be done by the
scretariat<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE"
style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0
0 0 5;">
<div>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear All,<br>
<br>
I'm in favor of promoting whenever possible the use of
CCSDS standards and if we can do something that helps
the reader and therefore potential "customer" to digest
the sometimes fairly complex material, I won't object.
However, given that the SLE services extend the space
link by providing a standard mechanism to access space
link data, in my mind it is implied that understanding
SLE services requires familiarity with the space link
protocols which define the data that SLE services deal
with. In fact, all SLE books have been written with that
understanding in mind. I completely agree with Peter's
analysis that the ROCF book contains all relevant
references to the space link protocols and as such is
complete. I also completely agree that in CCSDS we deal
with other relevant standards by reference rather than
inclusion. I'm sure we all agree that SLE books are not
the right place to present Green Book type material
related to space link protocols.<br>
<br>
In the spirit of helping the reader I do not mind adding
a sentence or two regarding why the ROCF service got
"invented". However, my concern regarding the sentence
proposed by Peter is that it might create the impression
that the only purpose of the OCF is carrying the CLCW.
While undoubtedly in most cases this is what the OCF is
used for, other OCF types exist as well and are covered
in detail in the ROCF-START operation. Therefore, if we
add any material explaining what the OCF is, we shall
not limit it to the CLCW case. Even if we add some
explanation of what the OCF is, the reader may still
fail to grasp why we cared to "invent" the ROCF service,
given that via RAF and/or RCF we can get the frames that
contain the OCFs of interest as well. We should add a
few words regarding the potential need for low-latency
delivery of the OCFs also in cases where the total space
link data rate (significantly) exceeds the terrestrial
communications bandwidth.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Wolfgang <br>
<br>
Am 20.05.2015 um 12:18 schrieb <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int">
Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int</a>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:30037_1432117114_555C5F7A_30037_48_1_OFF7CD4000.643CA6D5-ONC1257E4B.0025FBAE-C1257E4B.0038A10E@esa.int"
type="cite">
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Dear Erik and All,</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">I managed to read the
sequence of e-mails on this subject only today, as I
am on mission for the whole week, I have no problem
with instructing Secretariat about the introduction of
the suggested sentence. However, one should first look
into the R-OCF Recommendation and think of the
appropriate place where to put it. Also, one may want
to check if analogous sentences need to be introduced
in other SLE Recommendations.</font><br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">I will have time to
look into this only next week ( and I will coordinate
with Wolfgang).
</font><br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">I do not know how far
the editor is with the Pink Books ( may be Tom can
tell us), If there is still a chance to introduce
this change, say by the end of next week, then it is
all right. Otherwise, we can keep this change in mind
as a RID to be issued during the agency Review, as
somebody suggested in one of the pervious e-mails.</font><br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Kind regards,<br>
Margherita</font> <br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Margherita di Giulio<br>
Ground Station Back-end Section (HSO-GIB)<br>
European Space Agency ESA/ESOC<br>
Robert-Bosch-Str. 5<br>
D-64293 Darmstadt - Germany<br>
Tel: +49-6151-902779<br>
e-mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int">
Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int</a><br>
</font><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">From:
</font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">"Barkley,
Erik J (3970)"
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:erik.j.barkley@jpl.nasa.gov"><erik.j.barkley@jpl.nasa.gov></a></font><br>
<font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">To:
</font><font face="sans-serif" size="1"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int">"Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int"</a><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int"><Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int></a>,
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:Wolfgang_._Hell@t-online.de">"Wolfgang_._Hell@t-online.de"</a><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:Wolfgang_._Hell@t-online.de"><Wolfgang_._Hell@t-online.de></a>,
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:Holger.Dreihahn@esa.int">"Holger.Dreihahn@esa.int"</a><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:Holger.Dreihahn@esa.int"><Holger.Dreihahn@esa.int></a>,
</font><br>
<font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">Cc:
</font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">"Shames,
Peter M (312B)"
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:peter.m.shames@jpl.nasa.gov"><peter.m.shames@jpl.nasa.gov></a>,
"CCSDS Secretariat (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:thomas.gannett@tgannett.net">thomas.gannett@tgannett.net</a>)"
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:thomas.gannett@tgannett.net"><thomas.gannett@tgannett.net></a>,
"John Pietras (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:pietras@gst.com">pietras@gst.com</a>)"
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:pietras@gst.com"><pietras@gst.com></a>,
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:css-csts@mailman.ccsds.org">"css-csts@mailman.ccsds.org"</a><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:css-csts@mailman.ccsds.org"><css-csts@mailman.ccsds.org></a></font><br>
<font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">Date:
</font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">13/05/2015
21:03</font><br>
<font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">Subject:
</font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">An
update to the ROCF SLE recommendation that can be done
by the scretariat</font><br>
<hr noshade="noshade">
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font face="Calibri" size="2">Margherita, Wolfgang,
Holger,</font> <br>
<font face="Calibri" size="2"> </font> <br>
<font face="Calibri" size="2">With regard to the SLE
books about to have pink sheet reviews, a question
(please see previous email today) arose about adding
an editorial sentence to the SLE blue books. Peter
has suggested the following addition to the ROCF blue
book:</font> <br>
<font face="Calibri" size="2"> </font> <br>
<font face="Calibri" size="2"> </font> <br>
<font face="Calibri" size="2">"TC defines and uses the
CLCW, which is carried in the TM (or AOS) OCF field
for use in COP re-transmission operations. The ROCF
service is used to provide this CLCW to the user so
that these re-transmission operations may be
implemented in the user MOC."</font> <br>
<font face="Calibri" size="2"> </font> <br>
<font face="Calibri" size="2">We can issue specific
instructions to the secretariat as to exactly where to
add this type of sentence. It seems reasonable to me.
I would appreciate your comments on doing this, and
if you concur I see no reason why this could not be
included as part of the pink sheets going out for
agency review. </font><br>
<font face="Calibri" size="2"> </font> <br>
<font face="Calibri" size="2">Best regards,</font> <br>
<font face="Calibri" size="2"> </font> <br>
<font face="Calibri" size="2">-Erik</font> <br>
<font face="Calibri" size="2"> </font> <br>
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