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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Margherita, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is not consensus, the term for it is administrative fiat.  The issue is far broader than the WG not reaching consensus.  The issue is that several of our procedures, in the WG and in the CESG, were ignored in the way that this was
 handled.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The fact is that this topic was addressed in the CESG telecon and I strongly object to you making a choice to ignore that, and by that action, document the meeting is an inaccurate way.  You may think I am making a mountain out of a molehill. 
 I think I am standing up for the principles by which this organization has been run since the beginning.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I really must insist that the minutes reflect what occurred and not this bowdlerized, and inaccurate, version that we have now.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards, Peter<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">"Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int" <Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 6:05 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Peter Shames <Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov><br>
<b>Cc: </b>CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg@mailman.ccsds.org>, CESG <cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org>, Mario Merri <Mario.Merri@esa.int><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [CESG] CESG Telecon 5th September - Minute of Meeting<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Dear Peter and All,</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">this matter is getting too far, and  it deserves further discussion at the Berlin meeting.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I invite everybody to only look into the real issue about non-consensus in the WG and about the ( claimed) duplication of standards.</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The problem shall be tackled, beyond procedures and formalism. We (=CESG) have an engineering (= technical) role, and we shall aim at  resolving the issue on<u>  technical grounds
</u></span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">To all : the discussion shall be resumed at the Fall Meeting.</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The Minute of Meeting is in its final shape and will not be updated.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Kind regards,<br>
Margherita</span> <br>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">--------------------------------------------------------------<br>
</span><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#00A1E0">Margherita di Giulio</span></b>
<br>
<span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Data Systems Infrastructure Division (OPS-GI)<br>
</span><br>
<b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">European Space Agency ESA/ESOC</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F"><br>
Robert-Bosch-Str. 5<br>
D-64293 Darmstadt - Germany<br>
Tel: +49-6151-902779<br>
e-mail: Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F"><br>
<br>
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">From:        </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"Shames, Peter M (312B)" <Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov></span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">To:        </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"Mario.Merri@esa.int" <Mario.Merri@esa.int></span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Cc:        </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"cesg@mailman.ccsds.org" <cesg@mailman.ccsds.org></span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Date:        </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">01/10/2018 20:00</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Subject:        </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Re: [CESG] CESG Telecon  5th September -  Minute of Meeting</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Sent by:        </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"CESG" <cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
<o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">
Dear Mario,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">
 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">
We have a real difference of opinion here.  I am going to leave out of the discussion the editorialized version of the discussions in the Gaithersburg CESG meeting minutes and just focus on what actually occurred during and leading up to this 5 Sept meeting.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">
 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">
During that 5 Sept meeting we did have a discussion of the following:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        
</span></span></span><![endif]>That the SM&C WG did not reach consensus on the contents of the Technical Note.  In point of fact, we had the original CESG meeting where this was discussed on 16 April, but the whole SM&C WG did not see the TN until 1 August.
  To quote the current MoM:  "<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> Once the TN became available, M. Merri distributed it to the SM&C WG and to the CESG requesting comments (by 31Aug)."  </span>According to my email records Mario
 sent this out to the whole WG on 1 August 2018, at 12:56 AM PDT, months after the CESG meeting.  It was first sent to the CESG on 25 July 2018.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        
</span></span></span><![endif]>The documented CCSDS procedures are to reach WG consensus on materials before they are brought to the CESG.  As stated above, that did not occur in this case.  At this point the only possible interpretation of this TN is that
 it was an agency position paper, not a WG supported TN.   <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        
</span></span></span><![endif]>As a part of the documented consensus process it is possible for a WG, or an individual, to ask the AD, and then the CESG, for an independent review of an issue that is contentious.  See A02.1-Y-4, Annex G on the CCSDS Consensus
 Process.  The whole organization is supposed to operate like this.  Since the WG did not see this TN until
<b><i>after</i></b> the CESG discussion it is impossible to argue that this process was followed.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        
</span></span></span><![endif]>Furthermore, this agency position paper was passed to the CMC without it ever having had a technical review and agreement by the CESG.  In our normal operations procedures we are to "use<span style="font-size:12.0pt"> a disciplined
 process to define, document, and dispose technical issues" </span>and it is only when there is a block to consensus that an issue would get escalated to the next higher level in the organization.  That did not occur and CESG discussion and consensus was bypassed
 prior to sending this TN to the CMC. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        
</span></span></span><![endif]>In this case the actual flow of information avoided or bypassed all of these normal steps and we failed to do due diligence and to reach consensus at several levels.  This was masked in the MoM from the Gaithersburg CESG meeting,
 but it is evident in these MoM where it is clear that the WG never reached consensus in the first place and that CESG consensus on escalating this to the CMC was not achieved before that occurred.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">
We did have this discussion during the 5 Sept CESG Telecon, even though it was in a more abbreviated form than this, and without the specific CCSDS Org & Proc references.  However, reference was made verbally to the Org & Proc and to the fact that we had operated
 outside the norms.  This was stated explicitly.  Because of this I request that these facts be recorded in the MoM of the 5 Sept telecon and I draw your attention to Annex G and the way that the consensus process is supposed to work.  I am not willing to accept
 editorializing that would remove this discussion from the record.  <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">
 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">
This is, in fact, what happened and we should not confuse the matter.<o:p></o:p></p>
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 <o:p></o:p></p>
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Almost everything about the way that this TN was handled was out of the norm and I think we need to understand why that occurred and avoid it in the future.<o:p></o:p></p>
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 <o:p></o:p></p>
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Best regards, Peter<o:p></o:p></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:12.0pt">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Mario Merri <Mario.Merri@esa.int><b><br>
Date: </b>Monday, October 1, 2018 at 8:45 AM<b><br>
To: </b>Peter Shames <Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov><b><br>
Cc: </b>CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg@mailman.ccsds.org><b><br>
Subject: </b>Re: [CESG] CESG Telecon 5th September - Minute of Meeting</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Hi Peter,</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
I think your new text confuses the situation, which is well explained in the text above, i.e.</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
"CESG concluded that ESA, CNES, and DLR members of the SM&C WG would produce a Technical Note containing the analysis of the overlap." This sentence is clear and faithfully describes what had happened. On the other hand, your proposed change, i.e.</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
"The CESG discussed the fact that the SM&C WG had not reached consensus on this issue before sending the document to the CESG ... Both of these actions are outside the norm of CCSDS procedures." is not clear and seems to contradict the sentence above.</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
From the sentence above, it is clear that there was no consensus in the SM&C WG, yet the CESG instructed the MOIMS AD to have the TN produced by ESA, CNES, and DLR to elaborate on the alleged overlapping. This seems to me a prerogative of the CESG and as such
 within the norm of the CCSDS procedures. This is what happened and we should not confuse the matter.</span>
<br>
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I propose to delete your proposed additions.</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
Regards,</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
__Mario</span> <br>
<br>
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From:        </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"Shames, Peter M (312B)" <Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov></span>
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To:        </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int" <Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int>, "cesg@mailman.ccsds.org" <cesg@mailman.ccsds.org></span>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F"><br>
Date:        </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">01/10/2018 16:58</span>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F"><br>
Subject:        </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Re: [CESG] CESG Telecon  5th September -  Minute of Meeting</span>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F"><br>
Sent by:        </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"CESG" <cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt">Dear Margherita,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt">I see that you have made some additional edits to the Final_D_1 version of the MoM for the 5 Sept telecon.  I believe that these are not yet accurate, and since these minutes seem to be treated as the Gospel I think they need
 to reflect what actually occurred during the meeting.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt">Please see attached edits.  We did discuss these quite out of the norm processes, but we did not reach a conclusion as to how they were to be resolved.  I believe that we are in agreement that we shall continue to follow our written
 and agreed procedures, and that if we wish to change them we shall follow the process for doing that instead of just making up new ones procedures on the fly.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt">Thanks, Peter</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:12.0pt">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt">CESG <cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org> on behalf of "Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int" <Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int><b><br>
Date: </b>Monday, October 1, 2018 at 7:05 AM<b><br>
To: </b>CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg@mailman.ccsds.org><b><br>
Subject: </b>[CESG] CESG Telecon 5th September - Minute of Meeting</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Dear All,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
please find attached the Minute of Meeting from the CESG Telecon held on 5th September.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
This file is also available on CWE at </span><u><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue"><br>
<br>
</span></u><a href="https://cwe.ccsds.org/cesg/docs/CWE%20Private/Meetings/2018%20-%20Spring%20Meeting%20Gaithersburgh%2C%20MD%2C%20USA/CESG%20Meeting%2C%2016th%20April%202018/CESG%20Telecon%205th%20September%202018_Notes%20Final_D_1.docx"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">https://cwe.ccsds.org/cesg/docs/CWE%20Private/Meetings/2018%20-%20Spring%20Meeting%20Gaithersburgh%2C%20MD%2C%20USA/CESG%20Meeting%2C%2016th%20April%202018/CESG%20Telecon%205th%20September%202018_Notes%20Final_D_1.docx</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
Margherita</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
<br>
--------------------------------------------------------------</span><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#00A1E0"><br>
Margherita di Giulio</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <br>
</span><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F"><br>
<br>
European Space Agency ESA/ESOC</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F"><br>
Robert-Bosch-Str. 5<br>
D-64293 Darmstadt - Germany<br>
Tel: +49-6151-902779<br>
e-mail: Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre style="margin-left:.5in">This message is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. It may contain proprietary information and/or<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">protected content. Any unauthorised disclosure, use, retention or dissemination is prohibited. If you have received<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately. ESA applies appropriate organisational measures to protect<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">personal data, in case of data privacy queries, please contact the ESA Data Protection Officer (dpo@esa.int).<o:p></o:p></pre>
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