<span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">Dear Peter and All,</span>
<br><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">this matter is
getting too far, and it deserves further discussion at the Berlin
meeting.</span>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">I invite everybody
to only look into the real issue about non-consensus in the WG and about
the ( claimed) duplication of standards.</span>
<br><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">The problem shall
be tackled, beyond procedures and formalism. We (=CESG) have an engineering
(= technical) role, and we shall aim at resolving the issue on<u>
technical grounds </u></span>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">To all : the discussion
shall be resumed at the Fall Meeting.</span>
<br><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">The Minute of
Meeting is in its final shape and will not be updated.</span>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">Kind regards,<br>
Margherita</span>
<br>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">--------------------------------------------------------------<br>
</span><span style=" font-size:8pt;color:#00a1e0;font-family:Verdana"><b>Margherita
di Giulio</b></span>
<br><span style=" font-size:8pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:Verdana">Data
Systems Infrastructure Division (OPS-GI)<br>
</span>
<br><span style=" font-size:8pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:Verdana"><b>European
Space Agency ESA/ESOC</b><br>
Robert-Bosch-Str. 5<br>
D-64293 Darmstadt - Germany<br>
Tel: +49-6151-902779<br>
e-mail: Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif"><br>
<br>
</span>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">From:
</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif">"Shames,
Peter M (312B)" <Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov></span>
<br><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">To:
</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif">"Mario.Merri@esa.int"
<Mario.Merri@esa.int></span>
<br><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">Cc:
</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif">"cesg@mailman.ccsds.org"
<cesg@mailman.ccsds.org></span>
<br><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">Date:
</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif">01/10/2018
20:00</span>
<br><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">Subject:
</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif">Re:
[CESG] CESG Telecon 5th September - Minute of Meeting</span>
<br><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:sans-serif">Sent
by: </span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:sans-serif">"CESG"
<cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org></span>
<br>
<hr noshade>
<br>
<br>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">Dear
Mario,</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">We
have a real difference of opinion here. I am going to leave out of
the discussion the editorialized version of the discussions in the Gaithersburg
CESG meeting minutes and just focus on what actually occurred during and
leading up to this 5 Sept meeting.</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">During
that 5 Sept meeting we did have a discussion of the following:</span></p>
<ul>
<li><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">That the SM&C
WG did not reach consensus on the contents of the Technical Note. In
point of fact, we had the original CESG meeting where this was discussed
on 16 April, but the whole SM&C WG did not see the TN until 1 August.
To quote the current MoM: "</span><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Times New Roman">
Once the TN became available, M. Merri distributed it to the SM&C WG
and to the CESG requesting comments (by 31Aug)." </span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">According
to my email records Mario sent this out to the whole WG on 1 August 2018,
at 12:56 AM PDT, months after the CESG meeting. It was first sent
to the CESG on 25 July 2018.</span>
<li><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">The documented CCSDS
procedures are to reach WG consensus on materials before they are brought
to the CESG. As stated above, that did not occur in this case. At
this point the only possible interpretation of this TN is that it was an
agency position paper, not a WG supported TN. </span>
<li><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">As a part of the
documented consensus process it is possible for a WG, or an individual,
to ask the AD, and then the CESG, for an independent review of an issue
that is contentious. See A02.1-Y-4, Annex G on the CCSDS Consensus
Process. The whole organization is supposed to operate like this.
Since the WG did not see this TN until <b><i>after</i></b> the CESG
discussion it is impossible to argue that this process was followed.</span>
<li><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">Furthermore, this
agency position paper was passed to the CMC without it ever having had
a technical review and agreement by the CESG. In our normal operations
procedures we are to "use</span><span style=" font-size:12pt"> a disciplined
process to define, document, and dispose technical issues" </span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">and
it is only when there is a block to consensus that an issue would get escalated
to the next higher level in the organization. That did not occur
and CESG discussion and consensus was bypassed prior to sending this TN
to the CMC.</span>
<li><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">In this case the
actual flow of information avoided or bypassed all of these normal steps
and we failed to do due diligence and to reach consensus at several levels.
This was masked in the MoM from the Gaithersburg CESG meeting, but
it is evident in these MoM where it is clear that the WG never reached
consensus in the first place and that CESG consensus on escalating this
to the CMC was not achieved before that occurred.</span></ul><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Times New Roman"> </span>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">We
did have this discussion during the 5 Sept CESG Telecon, even though it
was in a more abbreviated form than this, and without the specific CCSDS
Org & Proc references. However, reference was made verbally to
the Org & Proc and to the fact that we had operated outside the norms.
This was stated explicitly. Because of this I request that
these facts be recorded in the MoM of the 5 Sept telecon and I draw your
attention to Annex G and the way that the consensus process is supposed
to work. I am not willing to accept editorializing that would remove
this discussion from the record. </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">This
is, in fact, what happened and we should not confuse the matter.</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">Almost
everything about the way that this TN was handled was out of the norm and
I think we need to understand why that occurred and avoid it in the future.</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">Best
regards, Peter</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Times New Roman"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri"><b>From:
</b>Mario Merri <Mario.Merri@esa.int><b><br>
Date: </b>Monday, October 1, 2018 at 8:45 AM<b><br>
To: </b>Peter Shames <Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov><b><br>
Cc: </b>CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg@mailman.ccsds.org><b><br>
Subject: </b>Re: [CESG] CESG Telecon 5th September - Minute of Meeting</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial">Hi
Peter,</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> <br>
</span><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
I think your new text confuses the situation, which is well explained in
the text above, i.e.</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
<br>
</span><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
"CESG concluded that ESA, CNES, and DLR members of the SM&C WG
would produce a Technical Note containing the analysis of the overlap."
This sentence is clear and faithfully describes what had happened. On the
other hand, your proposed change, i.e.</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
<br>
</span><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
"The CESG discussed the fact that the SM&C WG had not reached
consensus on this issue before sending the document to the CESG ... Both
of these actions are outside the norm of CCSDS procedures." is not
clear and seems to contradict the sentence above.</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
<br>
</span><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
>From the sentence above, it is clear that there was no consensus in the
SM&C WG, yet the CESG instructed the MOIMS AD to have the TN produced
by ESA, CNES, and DLR to elaborate on the alleged overlapping. This seems
to me a prerogative of the CESG and as such within the norm of the CCSDS
procedures. This is what happened and we should not confuse the matter.</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
<br>
</span><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
I propose to delete your proposed additions.</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
<br>
</span><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
Regards,</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> <br>
</span><span style=" font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
__Mario</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> <br>
<br>
</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:Arial"><br>
From: </span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial">"Shames,
Peter M (312B)" <Peter.M.Shames@jpl.nasa.gov></span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:Arial"><br>
To: </span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial">"Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int"
<Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int>, "cesg@mailman.ccsds.org"
<cesg@mailman.ccsds.org></span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:Arial"><br>
Date: </span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial">01/10/2018
16:58</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:Arial"><br>
Subject: </span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial">Re:
[CESG] CESG Telecon 5th September - Minute of Meeting</span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
</span><span style=" font-size:9pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:Arial"><br>
Sent by: </span><span style=" font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial">"CESG"
<cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org></span><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri">
</span></p>
<div align=center>
<hr noshade></div>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:240px"><span style=" font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Dear
Margherita,</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">I
see that you have made some additional edits to the Final_D_1 version of
the MoM for the 5 Sept telecon. I believe that these are not yet
accurate, and since these minutes seem to be treated as the Gospel I think
they need to reflect what actually occurred during the meeting.</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Please
see attached edits. We did discuss these quite out of the norm processes,
but we did not reach a conclusion as to how they were to be resolved. I
believe that we are in agreement that we shall continue to follow our written
and agreed procedures, and that if we wish to change them we shall follow
the process for doing that instead of just making up new ones procedures
on the fly.</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Thanks,
Peter</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"><b>From:
</b>CESG <cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org> on behalf of "Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int"
<Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int><b><br>
Date: </b>Monday, October 1, 2018 at 7:05 AM<b><br>
To: </b>CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg@mailman.ccsds.org><b><br>
Subject: </b>[CESG] CESG Telecon 5th September - Minute of Meeting</span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style=";margin-Bottom:3600px"><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">Dear
All,</span><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
please find attached the Minute of Meeting from the CESG Telecon held on
5th September.</span><span style=" font-size:12pt"> </span><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
This file is also available on CWE at </span><span style=" font-size:12pt;color:blue"><u><br>
<br>
</u></span><a href="https://cwe.ccsds.org/cesg/docs/CWE%20Private/Meetings/2018%20-%20Spring%20Meeting%20Gaithersburgh%2C%20MD%2C%20USA/CESG%20Meeting%2C%2016th%20April%202018/CESG%20Telecon%205th%20September%202018_Notes%20Final_D_1.docx"><span style=" font-size:10pt;color:blue;font-family:Arial"><u>https://cwe.ccsds.org/cesg/docs/CWE%20Private/Meetings/2018%20-%20Spring%20Meeting%20Gaithersburgh%2C%20MD%2C%20USA/CESG%20Meeting%2C%2016th%20April%202018/CESG%20Telecon%205th%20September%202018_Notes%20Final_D_1.docx</u></span></a><span style=" font-size:12pt">
</span><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
Margherita</span><span style=" font-size:12pt"> <br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><br>
<br>
--------------------------------------------------------------</span><span style=" font-size:8pt;color:#00a1e0;font-family:Verdana"><b><br>
Margherita di Giulio</b></span><span style=" font-size:12pt"> <br>
</span><span style=" font-size:8pt;color:#5f5f5f;font-family:Verdana"><b><br>
<br>
European Space Agency ESA/ESOC</b><br>
Robert-Bosch-Str. 5<br>
D-64293 Darmstadt - Germany<br>
Tel: +49-6151-902779<br>
e-mail: Margherita.di.Giulio@esa.int</span></p>
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<p style="■
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L)§;margin-Bottom:0px"><span style=" font-size:10pt;font-family:Courier New">protected
content. Any unauthorised disclosure, use, retention or dissemination is
prohibited. If you have received</span></p>
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data, in case of data privacy queries, please contact the ESA Data Protection
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</PRE>