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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hi Mario,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">In the case of the MP&S discussion I suspect that this may be a case of "you hear what you want to hear." Since the initial discussion was mostly you and me I specifically
asked the other Ads for feedback on this issue of whether CCSDS normally separated or combined data format standards and service standards. My notes, written during the meeting, say this:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">- MPS format & service, Mario says “Dan Smith likes the MPS format & service", as does Steve Chien
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">- Scott, Erik, and Jonathan all agree that combining formats and services in one document is a problem
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">- Scott raises example of CFDP service & protocol, which is a different thing
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">=> agree to have a separate telecon about this MPS issue between MPS and CESG</span></i></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Granted that these are my notes, but it is what I heard during the meeting. I've taken the time to talk to Dan Smith and Steve Chien about this issue. Dan was unequivocal
that he does not support combining these into one document and that he believes we should have clearly defined, interoperable, data formats. Steve Chien stated that he felt that data formats needed an understanding of the services that we going to use them.
We modelled these in the abstract in the SAWG work (attached, see Functional view, pgs 11-13, and Information view pg 8). After further discussion, I believe that what he means is abstract services, more about the "what" than the details of the "how".
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">A good analogy that I would use is to draw your attention to the distinction between the CSS SLE Cross Support Reference Model, <a href="https://public.ccsds.org/Pubs/910x4b2e1.pdf" target="_blank">CCSDS
910.4-B-2</a>, and the actual SLE service specs, like Space Link Extension--Return All Frames Service Specification, <a href="https://public.ccsds.org/Pubs/911x1b4.pdf" target="_blank">CCSDS 911.1-B-4</a>. The first is all about services in the abstract,
which is, I believe, where MPS is exploring today. The second is actually a fully specified, interoperable, service spec that defines, in a directly implementable way, services, operations, PDUs, and data exchanges. Two different documents. And, to make
the point clearer (I hope) the actual data that is being transferred by SLE R-AF is CCSDS space link data frames, and those are defined separately in yet other documents. This sort of layering is a key feature of how the bulk of CCSDS standards are defined.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The fact that these distinctions were not made clear in earlier planning is not an excuse for not doing the right thing now, as the work is actually getting moving.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">As for the Doodle. I'll do it today. You will have to forgive me since I have been somewhat preoccupied with family matters. My wife's mother was in the hospital while we
were in San Antonio, she returned home under hospice care and just passed away on Saturday night. On Thursday we have to fly to Florida for the funeral.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Regards, Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Mario Merri <Mario.Merri@esa.int><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 11:07 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Peter Shames <peter.m.shames@jpl.nasa.gov><br>
<b>Cc: </b>CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg@mailman.ccsds.org>, Nestor Peccia <Nestor.Peccia@esa.int><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [CESG] Fw: REMINDER: Draft Notes of CESG meeting on 15th May 2017<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Peter,</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">>>During CESG discussion three other areas (CSS, SIS, SOIS) also supported the SEA AD position</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I do not recall that there was such an unconditioned support of your position from all the other (NASA) ADs. But I might be wrong and it would be nice to hear directly from them.
</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I recall that the MP&S WG has discussed the matter in San Antonio and have unanimously (i.e. including all the NASA and JPL representatives) came up with the following internal statement:</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">"We discussed this point and the whole WG confirmed that we want one BB and not two, especially taking into account that:</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">1. There is a logical link between information model and services (the information model is service aware, although the data formats can be used without services) hence we somehow must
think about the services also when defining the information model (e.g. Grouping if the entities, ...)</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">2. We spent a lot of effort in ensuring the resources required for this BB project (writing the book + 2 agencies committed resources for prototyping). the BB will earliest be published
in 2020-21. We do not want to start doing the same effort gathering exercise for a second BB just for services to be published in 2025-26!!
</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">3. The BB project in its current scope approved by CESG and CMC clearly has both services and information model in it. Peter objected already back then but was overruled by everyone else."</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Could you please participate to the doodle so that I can establish a date for the webex? Otherwise we do not make the CMC.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Many thanks,</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">__Mario</span> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif;color:#5F5F5F">From: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif">"Shames, Peter M (312B)" <peter.m.shames@jpl.nasa.gov></span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif;color:#5F5F5F">To: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif">"Nestor.Peccia@esa.int" <Nestor.Peccia@esa.int>, "CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec(cesg@mailman.ccsds.org)"
<cesg@mailman.ccsds.org></span> <br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif;color:#5F5F5F">Date: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif">23/05/2017 18:46</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif;color:#5F5F5F">Subject: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif">Re: [CESG] Fw: REMINDER: Draft Notes of CESG meeting on 15th May 2017</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif;color:#5F5F5F">Sent by: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif">"CESG" <cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Ciao Nestor,</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Please see attached edits, applied to the version you last sent out.</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Cheers, Peter</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span> <br>
<b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From: </span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">CESG <cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org> on behalf of Nestor Peccia <Nestor.Peccia@esa.int><b><br>
Date: </b>Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 1:06 AM<b><br>
To: </b>CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg@mailman.ccsds.org><b><br>
Subject: </b>[CESG] Fw: REMINDER: Draft Notes of CESG meeting on 15th May 2017</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif">Dear Margherita, Peter, Jonathan, Scott, Wallace</span>
<b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif"><br>
</span></b> <b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif"><br>
Please insert your comment (if any) into the last file sent by Erik.</span></b> <br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif"><br>
ciao</span> <span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif"><br>
nestor</span> <span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif;color:purple">
<br>
----- Forwarded by Nestor Peccia/esoc/ESA on 23/05/2017 10:02 -----</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif;color:#5F5F5F"><br>
From: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif">"Barkley, Erik J (3970)" <erik.j.barkley@jpl.nasa.gov></span>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif;color:#5F5F5F"><br>
To: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif">"Nestor.Peccia@esa.int" <Nestor.Peccia@esa.int></span>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif;color:#5F5F5F"><br>
Cc: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif">"CESG -- CCSDS-Engineering Steering Group (cesg@mailman.ccsds.org) (cesg@mailman.ccsds.org)" <cesg@mailman.ccsds.org></span>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif;color:#5F5F5F"><br>
Date: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif">22/05/2017 23:05</span>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif;color:#5F5F5F"><br>
Subject: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif",serif">RE: [CESG] REMINDER: Draft Notes of CESG meeting on 15th May 2017</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080"><br>
Nestor,</span> <span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080">
<br>
</span> <span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080"><br>
Attached please find my comments on the draft notes. I have added them to the inputs you have already received from Mario, Gilles, and Brigitte.</span>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080"><br>
</span> <span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080"><br>
Best regards,</span> <span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080">
<br>
-Erik</span> <span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#004080">
<br>
</span> <b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br>
From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> CESG [</span><a href="mailto:cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">mailto:cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Nestor.Peccia@esa.int<b><br>
Sent:</b> Sunday, May 21, 2017 11:42 PM<b><br>
To:</b> CCSDS Exec <cesg@mailman.ccsds.org><b><br>
Subject:</b> [CESG] REMINDER: Draft Notes of CESG meeting on 15th May 2017</span>
<br>
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:red"><br>
R E M I N D E R (w/o attachments)</span></b> <b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:red"><br>
<br>
==========================</span></b> <span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<br>
<br>
Dear all,</span> <span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
<br>
Please find attached the draft notes of our meeting and the updated presentation used during our discussion. I have literally (with small grammatical changes) include the text of the pptx into the word document.</span>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
<br>
[attachment "d0.1-CESG-Spring-17 Notes.docx" deleted by Nestor Peccia/esoc/ESA] [attachment "CESG S17 Meeting V1.pptx" deleted by Nestor Peccia/esoc/ESA]
<b><u><span style="color:red"><br>
<br>
Your comments at the latest by Wednesday 24th May 2017 cob </span></u></b><br>
<br>
and thanks again for your effort to complete all agenda items during our 9 hrs meeting.</span>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
<br>
ciao</span> <span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
nestor</span> <span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif"><br>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif"> [attachment "d0.1-CESG-Spring-17 Notes MM GM BB EB PS.docx" deleted by Mario Merri/esoc/ESA]
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