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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Hi Gippo,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Please go look at the SCCS-ADD (or ARD) which have carefully prepared (and reviewed) diagrams that show just exactly what is involved in providing the F-Frame service and an ABA forward
file service built on top of it. You are quite right that "</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif"">Space/Encapsulation Packets, reliable/unreliable transfer, COP usage"
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">are functions that will need to be built to operate the service and that it will be necessary to also define and build the Service Management (SM) capabilities that will allow these functions to be requested,
managed, and configured by the service user. But that is not all that will be required.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">The more significant "plumbing" that I was referencing includes: CFDP protocol processing, SPP packet creating, frame creation (AOS or TC), frame merging & multiplexing into separate VCs,
and frame encoding. All of those functions are defined in the ADD, some assigned to F-Frame (from frame creation down), as a re-usable set of structures, and some to specific services (such as CFDP and SPP). And all of those functions also need SM capabilities
defined. Furthermore, those functions, as defined in the F-Frame service description, are re-usable and can support both ABA and SSI protocol stacks and end-to-end services.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">To say that the "IOAG File services suppose a file is passed from A to B" is to ignore all of the actual plumbing that is required to make this happen. From a simplistic, "top level",
view this may be acceptable, but from a protocol view we really need to understand and define the whole set of protocols in the stack(s) and the gyrations that they go through. We cannot ignore the plumbing. So, in order to define a set of services that
maximize functionality for the users and minimize the effort on the part of the ESLT (and the users) we took the approach defined in the SCCS-ADD. You were one of the reviewers and approvers of that document, I assumed you were familiar with it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">I hope you recall that the origins of this F-Frame approach was in the IOAG SISG, in a sub-committee that you, Wolfgang, and I participated in. The focus there was on space internetworking,
but the forward frame service we cooked up was a general one and entirely suitable for the "plumbing" of even these sorts of ABA services. And that is exactly what is described in the SCCS-ADD.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">I think we should stick to the plan of developing the F-Frame first, and building these other services on top of that framework instead of developing another collection of "one-off" SLE-like
services.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Regards, Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">Gian Paolo Calzolari <Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, September 27, 2016 at 8:53 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Peter Shames <peter.m.shames@jpl.nasa.gov><br>
<b>Cc: </b>CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg@mailman.ccsds.org>, CESG <cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org>, Nestor Peccia <Nestor.Peccia@esa.int><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [CESG] IOAG: Service Catalogue #1 / "packet / file / frame plumbing"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif"">Peter,</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif""> I am sure I really understand what you mean for
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> "packet / file / frame plumbing"</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif"">?</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif"">It looks to me that the description in Catalog 1 for the four files services (two directions x two flavours) do underline that the service provide will have to do quite some work (plumbing?) about
Space/Encapsulation Packets, reliable/unreliable transfer, COP usage,</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif"">You also say the CSTS F-Frame is supposed to provide most of this plumbing but yor comment is ot about IOAG Catalog bu rather about the service an agency should select.</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif"">In fact the IOAG File services suppose a file is passed from A to B, while F-Frame supposes frames are passed fromA to B.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif"">Regards</span> <br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif"">Gian Paolo</span>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif";color:#5F5F5F">From: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif"">"Shames, Peter M (312B)" <peter.m.shames@jpl.nasa.gov></span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif";color:#5F5F5F">To: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif"">"Nestor.Peccia@esa.int" <Nestor.Peccia@esa.int>, "CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec(cesg@mailman.ccsds.org)"
<cesg@mailman.ccsds.org></span> <br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif";color:#5F5F5F">Date: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif"">26/09/2016 21:33</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif";color:#5F5F5F">Subject: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif"">Re: [CESG] IOAG: Service Catalogue #1</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif";color:#5F5F5F">Sent by: </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif"">"CESG" <cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Nestor,</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri">I know that this is a late input, but after reading the IOAG Svc Cat #1 I have a very real concern that I think needs to be surfaced. Four new services have been introduced, the "Forward/Return CFDP-File Service
Type" and the "Forward/Return PACKETS-File Service Type". In reading through the descriptions I find that they mention certain SM characteristics, but fail to acknowledge the required presence of a whole lot of "packet / file / frame plumbing" that is missing
in most of our current systems. Of particular concern, from a standards and logistics point of view, is that these new standards require a lot of the "plumbing" that CSTS F-Frame is supposed to provide, but make no mention of that standard. In fact, the
precursor standards, "Forward Synchronous Encoded Frame Service Type" has been dropped, and what is left is just some sort of weak "forward reference" to a CSTS F-Frame service.</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri">I think this is a huge mistake and that we should push back on it.</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Here is the logic behind this:</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri">1) FF-CSTS includes the key services and functions that are required for anything like forward file, or forward packet, or forward DTN to work.</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri">2) These functions include, quoting from the report "Users shall be aware that IOAG Service Catalog 2 foresees a future CSTS Forward Frame Service that is assumed will provide a forward service for [AOS]
and [TC-DLP] frames implementing multiplexing, frame fill and coding in the provider and implementing the full stack down to the physical layer."</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri">3) In order to implement a forward file or packet service all of these functions,
<b><i>plus</i></b> frame creation, must be present in the service provider.</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri">4) It makes little technical sense to create forward file and forward packet services, as new separate services that embed all of these function, instead of creating the FF-CSTS service and then building
CFDP and Packet service "plug-ins" on top of that which use this underlying service.</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri">In fact, this approach is exactly how the forward file service is now described in the SCCS-ADD. I draw your attention to CCSDS 901.1-M-1, sec 5.2.2.2 and sec 6.2.2.2. In fact, fig 6-4 shows the relationships
among SM, CSTS F-Frame, the associated functions that are required, including ranging, and also SLE R-AF, and fig 6-8 (ABA ESLT Forward-File Protocol Building Blocks) shows how F-Frame and Fwd frame are designed to be integrated. Any sort of forward packet
service ought to just be a variant of this.</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri">My recommendation is that CCSDS push back on this IOAG Cat 1 request for two new stand alone services and instead argue that CSTS F-Frame should be done first, and these other new service built upon that base.</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Regards, Peter</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span> <br>
<b><span style="font-family:Calibri">From: </span></b><span style="font-family:Calibri">CESG <cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org> on behalf of Nestor Peccia <Nestor.Peccia@esa.int><b><br>
Date: </b>Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 3:43 AM<b><br>
To: </b>CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg@mailman.ccsds.org><b><br>
Subject: </b>[CESG] IOAG: Service Catalogue #1</span> <br>
<br>
<u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif";color:red">REMINDER</span></u>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif""><br>
Please let me have your comments (in particular from the CSS Area) by 22nd Sept 2016 cob.</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif""><br>
ciao</span> <span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif""><br>
nestor</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif""><br>
============================</span> <span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif"">
<br>
Dear all,</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif""><br>
Please find attached the Service Catalogue #1 that has been approved by the IOAG.
</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif""><br>
You should be aware that the final approval regarding the editorial updates from NASA is still pending. There is an on-going discussion
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri">concerning service management “function” vs. service management “service”.</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif""><br>
However, this version is good enough to be processed by the CESG.</span> <br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif""><br>
[attachment "IOAG Service Catalog One.v2.0-Approved-20160823.pdf" deleted by Nestor Peccia/esoc/ESA]
<br>
[attachment "IOAG Service Catalog One.v2.0-Approved-20160823withBars.pdf" deleted by Nestor Peccia/esoc/ESA]
</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif""><br>
CESG will address this update during our next webex.</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif""><br>
Main changes are :</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif"">1. forward / return CFDP file over terrestrial generic file</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif"">2. forward / return packet file service over terrestrial generic file</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif"">3. Service Management functions</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif""><br>
ciao</span> <span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"sans-serif","serif""><br>
nestor</span> <br>
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