<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Title" content="">
<meta name="Keywords" content="">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Courier New";
panose-1:2 7 3 9 2 2 5 2 4 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#0563C1;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#954F72;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Courier;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:Calibri;
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Calibri;
color:windowtext;}
span.msoIns
{mso-style-type:export-only;
mso-style-name:"";
text-decoration:underline;
color:teal;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:244532767;
mso-list-template-ids:-770676390;}
@list l1
{mso-list-id:475803118;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:-933047026 67698705 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715;}
@list l1:level1
{mso-level-text:"%1\)";
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level2
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level3
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
@list l1:level4
{mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level5
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level6
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
@list l1:level7
{mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level8
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level9
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
@list l2
{mso-list-id:1759012957;
mso-list-template-ids:-56847190;}
@list l2:level1
{mso-level-start-at:3;
mso-level-tab-stop:.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l3
{mso-list-id:1887251319;
mso-list-template-ids:1659807820;}
@list l3:level1
{mso-level-tab-stop:.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l3:level2
{mso-level-tab-stop:1.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l3:level3
{mso-level-tab-stop:1.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l3:level4
{mso-level-tab-stop:2.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l3:level5
{mso-level-tab-stop:2.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l3:level6
{mso-level-tab-stop:3.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l3:level7
{mso-level-tab-stop:3.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l3:level8
{mso-level-tab-stop:4.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l3:level9
{mso-level-tab-stop:4.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l4
{mso-list-id:2007977330;
mso-list-template-ids:-1241622886;}
@list l4:level1
{mso-level-start-at:2;
mso-level-tab-stop:.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l3:level1 lfo7
{mso-level-start-at:2;}
@list l3:level1 lfo9
{mso-level-start-at:3;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
--></style>
</head>
<body bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Peter,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">I think I agree with you. My concern from the beginning has been that I do not want the forward file service to morph into a way to try to do multi-hop forwarding using file transfers
as the ‘data link’ mechanism. I understood the forward file service to have evolved into a mechanism/semantic for zipping a bunch of stuff together (metadata, data, etc.) to be used by the end system application (the receiver end of the data transfer), with
possibly some application semantics layered on top.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">In fact, if the forward-XXX services were generalized just a bit, I think they’d cover the DTN emergency command/telemetry case. Or maybe the DTN emergency commanding service is the forward
frame service running over bundles, I hadn’t thought of that until now but I like it. If part of the CSTS forward-frame service states how to tunnel (in my case, FRAMES) to a remote location and then radiate them, and if it can be run over BP as a transport
mechanism… It would address an IOAG need, at least.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> --keith<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">"cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org" <cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org> on behalf of Peter Shames <peter.m.shames@jpl.nasa.gov><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, September 26, 2016 at 3:33 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Nestor Peccia <Nestor.Peccia@esa.int>, CCSDS Exec <cesg@mailman.ccsds.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [CESG] IOAG: Service Catalogue #1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Nestor,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">I know that this is a late input, but after reading the IOAG Svc Cat #1 I have a very real concern that I think needs to be surfaced. Four new services have been introduced, the "Forward/Return
CFDP-File Service Type" and the "Forward/Return PACKETS-File Service Type". In reading through the descriptions I find that they mention certain SM characteristics, but fail to acknowledge the required presence of a whole lot of "packet / file / frame plumbing"
that is missing in most of our current systems. Of particular concern, from a standards and logistics point of view, is that these new standards require a lot of the "plumbing" that CSTS F-Frame is supposed to provide, but make no mention of that standard.
In fact, the precursor standards, "Forward Synchronous Encoded Frame Service Type" has been dropped, and what is left is just some sort of weak "forward reference" to a CSTS F-Frame service.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">I think this is a huge mistake and that we should push back on it.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Here is the logic behind this:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">FF-CSTS includes the key services and functions that are required for anything like forward file, or forward packet, or forward DTN to work.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">These functions include, quoting from the report "Users shall be aware that IOAG Service Catalog 2 foresees a future CSTS Forward Frame Service that is assumed will provide a forward
service for [AOS] and [TC-DLP] frames implementing multiplexing, frame fill and coding in the provider and implementing the full stack down to the physical layer."</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">In order to implement a forward file or packet service all of these functions,
<b><i>plus</i></b> frame creation, must be present in the service provider.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">4)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">It makes little technical sense to create forward file and forward packet services, as new separate services that embed all of these function, instead of creating the FF-CSTS service
and then building CFDP and Packet service "plug-ins" on top of that which use this underlying service.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">In fact, this approach is exactly how the forward file service is now described in the SCCS-ADD. I draw your attention to CCSDS 901.1-M-1, sec 5.2.2.2 and sec 6.2.2.2. In fact, fig 6-4
shows the relationships among SM, CSTS F-Frame, the associated functions that are required, including ranging, and also SLE R-AF, and fig 6-8 (ABA ESLT Forward-File Protocol Building Blocks) shows how F-Frame and Fwd frame are designed to be integrated. Any
sort of forward packet service ought to just be a variant of this.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">My recommendation is that CCSDS push back on this IOAG Cat 1 request for two new stand alone services and instead argue that CSTS F-Frame should be done first, and these other new service
built upon that base.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Regards, Peter</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">CESG <cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org> on behalf of Nestor Peccia <Nestor.Peccia@esa.int><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 3:43 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>CCSDS Engineering Steering Group - CESG Exec <cesg@mailman.ccsds.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[CESG] IOAG: Service Catalogue #1</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:red">REMINDER</span></u>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">Please let me have your comments (in particular from the CSS Area) by 22nd Sept 2016 cob.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">ciao</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">nestor</span> <br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">============================</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">Dear all,</span> <br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">Please find attached the Service Catalogue #1 that has been approved by the IOAG.
</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">You should be aware that the final approval regarding the editorial updates from NASA is still pending. There is an on-going discussion
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Calibri">concerning service management “function” vs. service management “service”.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">However, this version is good enough to be processed by the CESG.</span>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">[attachment "IOAG Service Catalog One.v2.0-Approved-20160823.pdf" deleted by Nestor Peccia/esoc/ESA]
</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">[attachment "IOAG Service Catalog One.v2.0-Approved-20160823withBars.pdf" deleted by Nestor Peccia/esoc/ESA]
</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">CESG will address this update during our next webex.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">Main changes are :</span> <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">forward / return CFDP file over terrestrial generic file</span>
<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<ol start="2" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo7">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">forward / return packet file service over terrestrial generic file</span>
<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<ol start="3" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo9">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">Service Management functions</span><o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">ciao</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">nestor</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>content is not permitted.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Please consider the environment before printing this email.<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>