<font size=2 face="Arial">Hi Erik,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">I believe your proposed change is not needed
as it is already covered by the standard, in particular by clause 3.5.1.3.c.
In fact, there it is clearly stated that:</font>
<ul>
<li><font size=2 face="Arial">[...] time subsets [...] may be abbreviated
to the span of interest by deleting the unneeded subfields, either on the
left or on the right. </font><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial">This
implies that one can delete the "d$B"*(Bd" subfield</font>
<li><font size=2 face="Arial">When subfields are deleted on the RIGHT,
the separators that had delimited the deleted subfields are dropped. </font><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial">This
implies that one can delete the decimal dot</font></ul>
<li>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">For the decimal dot I believe the current
solution is OK. Robust implementations should parse the time code string
until they find the "Z". If they find a "." before,
then the time has decimal fraction of second.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">On the other hand, clause 3.5.1.3.c provides
full flexibility to eliminate any subfield. This seems to me not clean
and not in the spirit of standardisation as it results in the proliferation
of different time formats, which require specific ICDs to make them unambiguous.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Regards,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">__Mario</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">From:
</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">"Shames, Peter
M (312B)" <peter.m.shames@jpl.nasa.gov></font>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">To:
</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">"Barkley, Erik
J (3970)" <erik.j.barkley@jpl.nasa.gov></font>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Cc:
</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">"CESG -- CCSDS-Engineering
Steering Group\(cesg@mailman.ccsds.org\)\(cesg@mailman.ccsds.org\)"
<cesg@mailman.ccsds.org></font>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Date:
</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">04/08/2016 05:04</font>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Subject:
</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: [CESG] CCSDS
301.0-B-4 propsed pink sheet (Time Code B) / Backward compatibility?</font>
<br><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Sent by:
</font><font size=1 face="sans-serif">"CESG"
<cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org></font>
<br>
<hr noshade>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=3>I agree. I think clause 3.5.1.3.c covers this case
(and even the hh:mm case). I just hope that implementations are robust
enough to handle it correctly.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3>Peter <br>
<br>
Sent from Peter's iPhone 6 </font>
<br>
<br><font size=3>Everything should be made as simple as possible, </font>
<br><font size=3>but not simpler. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=3>~Albert Einstein</font>
<br><font size=3><br>
On Aug 3, 2016, at 6:34 PM, Barkley, Erik J (3970) <</font><a href=mailto:erik.j.barkley@jpl.nasa.gov><font size=3 color=blue><u>erik.j.barkley@jpl.nasa.gov</u></font></a><font size=3>>
wrote:<br>
</font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri">Gippo,</font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri">I too noted that it might
be possible to interpret 3.5.1.3 as already allowing removal of the decimal
fraction/sub-second. </font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri">CESG members,</font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri">What is your taking/reading
on this? Does this already allow fractional seconds to be optional?
If not, why not? </font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri">Best regards,</font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri">-Erik</font>
<br><font size=2 color=#004080 face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Calibri"><b>From:</b> </font><a href=mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int><font size=2 color=blue face="Calibri"><u>Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Calibri">
[</font><a href=mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int><font size=2 color=blue face="Calibri"><u>mailto:Gian.Paolo.Calzolari@esa.int</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Calibri">]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> Monday, July 25, 2016 2:26 AM<b><br>
To:</b> Barkley, Erik J (3970) <</font><a href=mailto:erik.j.barkley@jpl.nasa.gov><font size=2 color=blue face="Calibri"><u>erik.j.barkley@jpl.nasa.gov</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Calibri">><b><br>
Cc:</b> CESG -- CCSDS-Engineering Steering Group (</font><a href=mailto:cesg@mailman.ccsds.org><font size=2 color=blue face="Calibri"><u>cesg@mailman.ccsds.org</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Calibri">)
(</font><a href=mailto:cesg@mailman.ccsds.org><font size=2 color=blue face="Calibri"><u>cesg@mailman.ccsds.org</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Calibri">)
<</font><a href=mailto:cesg@mailman.ccsds.org><font size=2 color=blue face="Calibri"><u>cesg@mailman.ccsds.org</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Calibri">><b><br>
Subject:</b> Re: [CESG] CCSDS 301.0-B-4 propsed pink sheet (Time Code B)
/ Backward compatibility?</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Erik,</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
from a purist point of view I think that it
would be incorrect stating that the change is backward compatible as a
former implementation would expect to find always the "</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">Decimal
fraction of second</font><font size=2 face="Arial">" and would most
likely crashes when that field is absent.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
Conversely a constant setting to 0 when not used would be fully backward
compatible.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> <br>
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
However it is also true that despite section 3.5.1.2 "ASCII TIME CODE
B, Year/Day of Year Calendar Variation" defines only one optional
field (i.e. the time code terminator) section 3.5.1.3 "SUBSETS
OF THE COMPLETE TIME CODES" basically allows many fields to be optional
so I wonder whether it would be more correct working on section 3.5.1.3
instead of adding the optional field in section 3.5.1.2.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
In other words, the part of </font><font size=2 face="Calibri">3.5.1.3
clause (c)</font><font size=2 face="Arial"> stating that the code "may
be abbreviated to the span of interest by deleting the unneeded subfields"
does already allow removing the Decimal fraction of second subfield?</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
<br>
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
My cent.......</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> <br>
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
Gian Paolo</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> <br>
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
PS It looks to me that the sentence "</font><font size=2 face="Times New Roman">the
need to accommodate the upcoming century rollover in only 11 years</font><font size=2 face="Arial">"
was somehow wrong in 2010 as it is now :o)</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial"><br>
From: </font><font size=1 face="Arial">"Barkley,
Erik J (3970)" <</font><a href=mailto:erik.j.barkley@jpl.nasa.gov><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>erik.j.barkley@jpl.nasa.gov</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial"><br>
To: </font><font size=1 face="Arial">"CESG
-- CCSDS-Engineering Steering Group (</font><a href=mailto:cesg@mailman.ccsds.org><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>cesg@mailman.ccsds.org</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">)
(</font><a href=mailto:cesg@mailman.ccsds.org><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>cesg@mailman.ccsds.org</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">)"
<</font><a href=mailto:cesg@mailman.ccsds.org><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>cesg@mailman.ccsds.org</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial"><br>
Date: </font><font size=1 face="Arial">22/07/2016
01:44</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial"><br>
Subject: </font><font size=1 face="Arial">[CESG]
CCSDS 301.0-B-4 propsed pink sheet (Time Code B)</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="Arial"><br>
Sent by: </font><font size=1 face="Arial">"CESG"
<</font><a href="mailto:cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org"><font size=1 color=blue face="Arial"><u>cesg-bounces@mailman.ccsds.org</u></font></a><font size=1 face="Arial">></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<div align=center>
<hr noshade></div>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
</font><font size=2 face="Calibri"><br>
CESG Colleagues,</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="Calibri"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="Calibri"><br>
Attached is the proposed pink sheet for Time Code B which makes the time
code more suitable for such applications as publishing a standardized schedule
of services for which mandatory fractional seconds is meaningless. (By
the way does anyone know what the original rationale was for requiring,
at a minimum, 1/10 of second time statements?) The proposed change
is the addition of $B!H(B(optional)$B!I(B which is in keeping with the method by
which optional is designated for the $B!H(BZ$B!I(B character in the recommendation.
I believe the $B!H(B.$B!I(B subfield separator disappears of by application
of 3.5.1.3 clause (c). If this change is made to Time Code
B, we likely should apply it to Time Code A. </font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size=2 face="Calibri"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="Calibri"><br>
Best regards,</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="Calibri"><br>
-Erik</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="Calibri"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="Calibri"><br>
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