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<div>My apologies that Scott / Rick beat me to the actual answer…</div>
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<div>There’s a lot of discussion in the CESG about ‘reference implementations’; in particular who might produce / host / verify such things, whether an agency would WANT to make their flight code widely available (here’s where my vulnerabilities are!), how
to indemnify the producers / distributers, etc. I concur that automated regression test suites for the interoperability tests would be great to have (and useful for updates, as you mention), but the current requirement is only for a test report that essentially
says ‘yes, we tested two independent implementations and they interoperated’.</div>
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<div>For LTP I did the interoperability test as a semi-automated test suite, and could presumably reconstitute it if we updated the LTP spec. Much of the BP testing was done by hand, unfortunately.</div>
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<div>If CCSDS were responsible for actually producing software I think it’d be a very different story, but the standards folks are somewhat disconnected from the implementation folks (at least on the NASA side, I suspect in the other agencies as well). That
gap is actually closing a bit at least on the NASA side with some more participation from the flight software folks at Goddard, which seems to be a good thing.</div>
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<div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>—keith</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>"Kevin. Gifford"<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 9:32 AM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>"Scott, Keith L.", Scott Burleigh, "<a href="mailto:Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org">Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org</a>", CCSDS All<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>"<a href="mailto:sis-cfdp@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-cfdp@mailman.ccsds.org</a>", "<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>", "Kevin. Gifford"<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Cesg-all] CFDPv1 status update<br>
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<div>Hi Keith – </div>
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<div>Thanks for the kind reply. I'm now completely onboard with your, Scott's and Rick's points and I appreciate the discussion. Upon reflection, and looking at the issue from other angles (development vs. missions, agency funding of activities, mission acceptance
testing) I am in total agreement as to the sageness of this approach.</div>
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<div>I, personally, get hung up on the software engineering observation that if I was writing a standard and responsible for testing interoperability, I'd think that the WG via the two participating primary agencies would produce a reference implementation(s)
under standard software development methodologies (revision control, regression testing, etc.). Then updating, minor or major, would be a case of adding test coverage of the new attributes, rebuilding, and retesting in an effort to provide the soundest specification
to stakeholders. But, as you indicated previously that is a "perfect world" and perhaps this preferential standards development strategy may not always be practical. So my engineering preference in the CFDPv1 case is an "unrealistic plan is doomed to fail".</div>
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<div>This has been an enlightening discussion for me as the Wireless WG is currently producing a Blue Book regarding RFID encoding. While I expect to follow the reference implementation path for interoperability testing, it is highly probable that there will
be downstream modifications required at some point and having the option to reduce the testing burden is a good thing.</div>
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<div>Thanks.</div>
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<div>Kevin</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span><Scott>, "Keith L." <<a href="mailto:kscott@mitre.org">kscott@mitre.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday, July 14, 2015 7:15 AM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Kevin Gifford <<a href="mailto:Kevin.Gifford@colorado.edu">Kevin.Gifford@colorado.edu</a>>, "Burleigh, Scott C (312B)" <<a href="mailto:scott.c.burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov">scott.c.burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov</a>>, "<a href="mailto:Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org">Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org</a>"
<<a href="mailto:Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org">Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org</a>>, CCSDS All <<a href="mailto:cesg-all@mailman.ccsds.org">cesg-all@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>"<a href="mailto:sis-cfdp@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-cfdp@mailman.ccsds.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:sis-cfdp@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-cfdp@mailman.ccsds.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>"
<<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Cesg-all] CFDPv1 status update<br>
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<div>Kevin,</div>
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<div>According to my understanding and my reading of the Organization and Processes manual, the purpose of the interoperability testing is to prove that the specification is unambiguous, not to produce flight-usable code. Indeed, one of the LTP implementations
we used in the interoperability test was in Python — no likely to fly soon :) The fact that in the case of CFDP NASA is using its ‘flight’ implementation of CFDP is probably a Good Thing, but not required for CCSDS.</div>
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<div>I agree that there is concern that the modified bits of the new CFDP spec could have implications that introduce ambiguities in other areas of the specification, but I think that in this case the probability of that is low enough that it doesn’t justify
the expense. The CESG could overrule that.</div>
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<div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>—keith</div>
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<div>I think the operative bits of the of the Organization and Processes manual are:</div>
<div>6.2.6.1.b.1 — Interoperability Testing</div>
<div>A8 — Interoperability is Essential</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>"Kevin. Gifford"<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, July 13, 2015 at 5:08 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>"Scott, Keith L.", Scott Burleigh, "<a href="mailto:Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org">Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org</a>", CCSDS All<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>"<a href="mailto:sis-cfdp@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-cfdp@mailman.ccsds.org</a>", "<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>"<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Cesg-all] CFDPv1 status update<br>
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<div>Hi Keith – </div>
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<div>So the result is the users find and identify any issues arising from independent interoperability testing that are the result of the updated specification?</div>
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<div>Is the point of <b>CCSDS</b> interoperability testing to prove the specification is sound/complete or to ensure implementation interoperability? </div>
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<div>I'll ask the same question: In the round of updates being discussed in this thread – has any CFDP codebase (NASA or other space agency, e.g., ESA) been or will be modified? </div>
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<div>Kevin</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span><Scott>, "Keith L." <<a href="mailto:kscott@mitre.org">kscott@mitre.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, July 13, 2015 2:56 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>"Burleigh, Scott C (312B)" <<a href="mailto:scott.c.burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov">scott.c.burleigh@jpl.nasa.gov</a>>, Kevin Gifford <<a href="mailto:Kevin.Gifford@colorado.edu">Kevin.Gifford@colorado.edu</a>>, "<a href="mailto:Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org">Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org</a>"
<<a href="mailto:Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org">Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org</a>>, CCSDS All <<a href="mailto:cesg-all@mailman.ccsds.org">cesg-all@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>"<a href="mailto:sis-cfdp@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-cfdp@mailman.ccsds.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:sis-cfdp@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-cfdp@mailman.ccsds.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>"
<<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Cesg-all] CFDPv1 status update<br>
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<div>I agree with Scott. In a perfect world, we’d have an automated regression test suite left over from the original testing (or follow-on work), and just re-run it. In practice it is unfortunately not that simple, and since the point of the tests is really
to prove out that the spec is sound rather than to test the implementation(s), I think we’ll need to stick with the smaller test if we can do it.</div>
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<div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>—keith</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Scott Burleigh<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, July 13, 2015 at 4:12 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>"Kevin. Gifford", "Scott, Keith L.", "<a href="mailto:Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org">Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org</a>", CCSDS All<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>"<a href="mailto:sis-cfdp@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-cfdp@mailman.ccsds.org</a>", "<a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a>"<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>RE: [Cesg-all] CFDPv1 status update<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Kevin, FWIW, I disagree. I don’t think you have stated here what the “clear need” for repeating the interoperability testing of all parts of CFDP
might be.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">The purpose of this interoperability testing is not to validate the correct operation of protocol implementations. It is rather to validate the clarity
and completeness of the protocol specification – demonstrating that the document provided sufficient guidance to enable independent implementers to develop software that interoperates.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">The clarity and completeness of the original, unmodified portions of the specification was validated many years ago, in the extensive interoperability
testing that preceded publication of the CFDP Blue Book, and it remains valid because those portions of the specification have not been revised.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">What has not yet been validated is the revised text of the specification, and that is what requires interoperability testing now. I don’t think additional
testing beyond what is required to prove out the specification can be justified.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Scott<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> Kevin K Gifford [<a href="mailto:kevin.gifford@Colorado.EDU">mailto:kevin.gifford@Colorado.EDU</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 13, 2015 9:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Scott, Keith L (9730-Affiliate); <a href="mailto:Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org">
Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org</a>; CCSDS All<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Burleigh, Scott C (312B); <a href="mailto:sis-cfdp@mailman.ccsds.org">
sis-cfdp@mailman.ccsds.org</a>; <a href="mailto:sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org">sis-dtn@mailman.ccsds.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Cesg-all] CFDPv1 status update<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Hi Keith – <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From a pedantic test engineering standpoint, I'd strongly suggest regression testing the entire CFDP protocol suite. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Certainly, I am not in-the-loop for the detailed technical protocol updates, but unless the updates were very minor, I see no engineering reason for not testing/retesting/regression-testing
the entire updated (and perhaps substantially roto-tilled) codebase. If the decision is a funds-available business decision, and the updates are very minor, then perhaps with explicit justification the additional testing could be either reasonably (defendable
by some reviewed document) waived or possibly postponed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I understand this increases the testing burden and necessitates (most likely) the need for additional resources. But if CFDP is used on any current (or future)
spacecraft, and especially the ISS in the near-term, then I think not testing the entire updated protocol suite is an engineering mistake (not performing due diligence when there is a clear need).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I just don't see now not retesting the entire codebase can be justified unless the updates are very, very minor. Am I missing something?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Kevin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><Scott>, "Keith L." <<a href="mailto:kscott@mitre.org">kscott@mitre.org</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, July 13, 2015 10:34 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>"<a href="mailto:Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org">Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org">Secretariat@mailman.ccsds.org</a>>, CCSDS All <<a href="mailto:cesg-all@mailman.ccsds.org">cesg-all@mailman.ccsds.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[Cesg-all] CFDPv1 status update<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">The CFDPv1 book completed
<a href="http://public.ccsds.org/sites/cwe/rids/Lists/CCSDS%207270P41/Overview.aspx">
agency review</a>, and the changes necessitated by the RIDs were minor enough to not warrant another agency review and have been resolved. The attached book with resolutions, and RID resolution spreadsheet, are for your information.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">The working group is going to interoperability test the NEW parts of the protocol only — and that work is under way. When the interoperability testing is
complete SIS will issue a resolution to submit the book for final CESG Poll and then CMC Poll; that resolution will be accompanied by the final version of the book (hopefully same as attached) and the interoperability test report for the new elements of the
protocol.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">As just mentioned, to reduce the interoperability testing burden, we plan to interoperability test only the NEW portions of CFDP (capabilities added by the
current update). When we submit the final document and interoperability test report, SIS will essentially be requesting a waiver on testing the remaining parts of the protocol. If anyone knows now that they’ll have an issue with this approach, could you
please let me know?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">V/r,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">—keith<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:
</span></b><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Scott Burleigh<br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, July 13, 2015 at 12:16 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>"Scott, Keith L."<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: We're ready to go with a resolution to publish the CFDPv1 Blue Book, right?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I think we can assert that none of the technical changes introduced since the agency review affect protocol functionality profoundly enough to warrant
the expense of an additional agency review; all of the changes are minor details. That’s going to be a judgment call for CESG, I guess, but I think it’s a defensible assertion.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Scott</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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